Except at the moment, it *does* get you enemied to places, since it requires you 1) Raid villages, or 2) Raid Glomdoring.

That kind of makes it a non-neutral quest.

Please keep this civil. Tosha is intended to be a neutral quest. The outcome of the Quest is that of a benefit only to the person who completes it. It has no impact whatsoever upon any community, and thus why it is called a neutral quest. The neutrality of a quest is normally defined by the consequences of the outcome, not the means.

Neither is any quest that requires you raid the Glomdoring.

Perhaps it truly is time for you to take your own advice.

Getting spiders is (in theory) a neutral quest, because it does not hurt the enemy organisation, nor does it help the quest doer's one. It's only stupid that spiders were put only inside Glomdoring (yeah, and the villages, I know). However, since they are not loyal, killing them doesn't count as "raiding" - thus, your point is null.

Would you care to lay a wager on this, Cuber? Me walking into the Serenwilde, greeting pixies and petting squirrels, was classified as an *ATTACK* by one of Serenwilde's GMs here on the forums. So was a dreambody standing at the Mother waiting for a certain event to happen. Neither of us were being aggressive, neither even attacked one of the non-loyal things hopping about the forest much less one of the loyals.

So, why can Serenwilde classify us doing *no* aggressive things as an attack/raid, but we can't classify your coming into the Glomdoring to kill things as such?

Unless you're saying, as Champion of the Serenguard, that you won't bother me if I come into the Serenwilde and don't attack anything... you don't have a leg to stand on. And even then, you still don't, since the rest of your Commune will do something about it anyways.

.

Want me to say what happens when I do even less than that, just wandering into Glomdoring? Hm?

The same thing that happens to me when I do even less than that, just wander into the Serenwilde.

The difference is, I understand that it will happen. You seem to think that it's all right for one org to do it, but not the other.

I mean that an unenemied person can go to Glomdoring, kill spiders, leave and they still won't be enemied. Also, if Glomdorians won't catch him/her doing it, they won't even know that the spiders were killed, or who did it.

But whatever. This was not the point of my original post. The point was to point out the fallacies in Shayle's post.

Where'd you get that? I was just making the point that there's no difference between our response and yours.

There are no fallacies. If you need to go into some territory where you are not welcome, and you continue returning, you will get enemied. We don't like outsiders in our realm, and we don't trade with organizations who have as one of their primary tenets the destruction of our home.

Don't like it? Stop trying to destroy us, get on our good side, and there's no reason why you too cannot benefit from our goods and services. This would mean you'd have to actually honour the whole "it's not tainted" part of the deal you agreed to, but eh... really, it's not THAT hard.

Otherwise, don't expect us to give you anything, especially not on a silver platter.

That's the way Glomdorians argue. Their players too it seems:

You are A, therefore you must be B (even if A and B are totally unrelated). Explain yourself! How come you are B? You say nothing? I knew it! Liar, liar, pants on fire! *tongue, skip around cheerfully*

minor edits.

Um... that was my point in the first place, so you objecting to it kind of made me read something else into your response.

Is it just me or does this post look like if it was written from an IC perspective?

But regardless. Shayle's fallacy was to give the Fae quest as an example of a "neutral" quest, which it isn't and never was.

There's a difference between

"Yes, I agree its unfair, but we can't do much other than attack if we catch you."

and

"Yes, I agree its unfair, but I'm going to use that to blackmail you into either doing what we say or missing out, and I'm going to make every effort to make sure you never get a chance."

Come on admins, when are we going to have a Glomdoring summit?!

It's just you, since that goes for *any* organization. If you keep going into their territory when they want you gone, *they will enemy and kill you for it.* If you don't want that to happen, remove their reason for disallowing you entrance, or... deal with the fact that it's there.


How about, "Yes, I agree it's unfair, and I wouldn't mind the creatures being found elsewhere-- but while they're found in the Glomdoring and you come into the Glomdoring after them, you have to play by our rules"? Since that's the one I'm at.

Straw man tactic. If you want to rebutt my point, target the actual POINT of the post and not the small comment I made.

And in this comment, I meant the following, among other things:



Sounds like if (no offense intended) someone forgot that Lusternia is not the real world their live in, referring to IC characters and organisations as if they belonged to them OOCly. Sounds like a minor comment? (and maybe a personal attack? I hope not, if it was I apologise) Because it was!

Sounds more like someone saying what his IC character's feelings on the situation are, actually. Since that's what it was.

Edit: Though looking back at it, I can see how it would be read otherwise, and I will apologize if you take offence to such wording.

That's the first time I have EVER heard a Glomdorian say that, you know. All I've heard before this point was "HAHA! SUCKS 2 B U!" from Glomdorians about it.

Really? Xen's used it a number of times. It's even in our laws with that exact phrasing.

4. Members of any organization which has declared its purpose to be the destruction of the Glomdoring are not allowed within the Glomdoring. Not even to use the arena.
Serenwilders are banned from entering the Glomdoring.
Celestians are banned from entering the Glomdoring.

2. Trading with any members of an organization which has declared its purpose to be the destruction of the Glomdoring is prohibited. While they may not be enemies, they are part of an organization which seeks to destroy our home. As such, there is no reason to provide them with the Glomdoring's bounty.
The organizations banned from trade with us are:
Serenwilde
Celest