Because they can take them back out?

Well, yes. That's the point, it's not as lame because there is a fix for it if they catch it. Emptying the vials totally screws 'em over and there's nothing they can do about it.

It's lame because you can force people to empty phlegmatic, multiple times until they have none left, then you can aeon them. OR you can force empty antidote until they have none left and give them crotamine, or do both.

It's a cheap way to win a fight, and if i caught anyone in magnagora doing it I would CDF them on the first offence, CDF and kill them on a second and kick them out of city on a 3rd offence. Not every guild has honour but there is a certain amount of common decently that I expect AND enforce in magnagora.

Except that people have to be on balance to empty vials.. and if want to avoid it, you can run or simply carry more. I really don't see how its a cheap tactic. And just like with people saying Pooka is so hard to use in actual combat because people are rarely caught with all their balances.

So again, what's the problem?

If you get stripped of all your vials of a certain cure, isn't that pretty much your own fault for not being prepared?

Stealing a pack is a lot different than stealing maybe five vials.

What is it ok to force? Anything more than slightly effective seems to be coded off-limits, or there's some social stigma attached.

No, stealing is stealing. Eitherway as I said before, its a matter of opinion. If you want to you use those tactics go to town, but I assure you all it gets you is the bad end of the stick because people will go out of their way just to screw you over.

The tactic is concidered cheap on several levels.

Basically gamers like to have a good fight. The thing is the move ultimately results to a full retreat which means that the so called good fight isnt really attained or completed. It is a common belief that the most a person needs to get out of any given mess is a brief breather. This actually holds true for the majority of skills in IRE. Those that do not are considered either cheap or too strong.

Another reason is because this may result in a player not being able to participate in an activity(which in this case is fighting) for a certain amount of time. Yes there are kegs etc but the main point is that these things do run out. When a person who has had their vials emptied hits an instance like this then basically its a forced timeout on a undeffinite time frame.

Another is because it is easy to do. Honestly if you dont know how to catch someone on balance then you're not trying hard enough.

While you most likely will not agree with these points because they are opposing opinions of a standard (ie you believe its hard I say its easy) and that you may have a different interpretation of whats fair and not. A lot of people do believe in certain rules of etiquette which are aligned to the reasons stated above. If you dont believe in them thats really not a problem, but it will be the reasons that the majority of gamers will call your tactics(if you do such things) cheap.

Stealing is not stealing. That is why there is a difference between petty theft and felony theft in Courts of Law. If theft was theft then you'd get the same punishment for shoplifting a stick of gum that you would get for stealing a porsche or laundering a billion dollars.

I think Alger put it the way I wanted to, but was too lazy to actually do.

See, I guess i'm at a disadvantage because I came into Mudding through a DIKU, where, when you died, you lost everything and had to start all over, and were completely out of any "activities" until you gathered up a new set of equipment.

And yeah, full looters were annoying, but thieves were a class, and finding a rare item missing from your inventory was the norm.

I dunno.. I just view IREers as spoiled

Of course I can. However, let's say you shield. It takes a few seconds for me to get back on equilibrium from a point staff .I decide to burst. Oh, wait, you're hitting me again. No more shield. Back to pointing staff. I was just saying that the way to stop mage staff damage is to shield.

You can't go for burst and damage alternating effectively, really. At least not from what I've seen.

My problem is that emptying cures doesn't bring a fair fight. It's very easy to catch someone on balance (leave the room for 3 seconds, enter room and order)

You can repeat this over and over and over until someone is out of the cure. It's an extremley cheap tactic, and in all IRE games it's frowned upon. If you have 5 vials of phlegmatic, and someone makes you empty them all then yeh it's THEIR fault. It's cheap and it's a horrid way to fight.

Like I said, my actions are swift, citydifavours followed by kicking out and enemying. It's not a point i'm willing to bend on. Emptying vials is dirty and anyone who uses it, well let's just say they have no combat ability whatsoever if they have to rely on it. It's not a 'viable' tactic. Anyone who does it deserves toget their asses kicked. Anyone on my side who does it will get my foot in their ass, and any enemy's who do it, i will go out of my way to may their life hell, and that includes waiting for them to go afk somewhere and robbing them blind.

-shrug- If I'm really losing a fight, and think it will help, I'll just make you give me your vials. If it works, I'll mail them back. Not like I fight anyway. Pooka should be for more than making you sit every once in a while or something.

I played Achaea for all of two weeks, and that was primarily to play with the different classes that Aetolia didn't have (this was pre-Cabalist even).

One of the things I found effective with Vodun was force PUT MENDING IN PACK and then break their arms. Especially if you could get them right before they attacked you, they wouldn't recover balance fast enough to take them back out. Then you just shatter their legs and go to town.

Then I started sparring people with more than one mending vial, and whichever ability in Survival allows you to regenerate broken limbs. So I just made them give their vials to me, and then broke them. And then besotted a bunch.

Now, I understand there are a bunch of things socially "wrong" in the above two paragraphs, but this was before there was a huge outcry against besot (and its subsequent removal). I just wanted to say, that even in the height of my cheapness, I never made someone empty their vials. It's a lot more fun to make them give them to you anyway. And then brandish them. And giggle a lot whilst they become more and more drunk.

On the other hand, I really don't see it as a lame tactic to make people empty vials. With the amount of kegs available, the only thing I couldn't refill within a minute from my nexus is quicksilver. I tend to feel that Force abilities should be useful. Not everything worth doing should be considered lame.

Exactly. Most things worth doing require balance, so I leave the room for a bit, letting you heal up to full, then come in, force you to do something, and try to start again. Unless it's cannibalise/toadcurse, I can't see that being worth it.

You can empty vials off balance. Selfishness is SUPPOSED to be the defense against it, and then it wouldn't be lame. But selfishness here doesn't stop vial emptying like it should, and no force ability should bypass selfishness, ever.

I just want to say here that Murphy's avatar is freakin' hilarious. It looks like the Death of Horses or something.

You are wrong.





Case closed.

As for the Selfishness being a defence, it is. You have a 75% chance of not losing anything if you have selfishness up. That's a pretty good frick'n defence.

Come on, Tuek. You're not one to talk about cheap, considering how you and Narsrim used to eradicate Demonlords by abusing their agressiveness along with Moonbeam.

The off-balance thing is fine then, it's not like that in other realms. But selfishness should stop emptying of vials and giving things away 100%. That's the entire purpose of the defense.

And secondly, Narsrim and I never abused anything. You weren't even there to know what took place.

You might want to rephrase that. Narsrim has abused quite a few things during his time in Lusternia.