It was understandable, dont worry. Should rest or take something if the headache is pretty bad.

That's it. Right there.

If you have things to do, like hunting essence or making food, when you're playing a Glom, why can't you do similar things when you're playing a Seren? And if the answer to that leads here, if you don't like the RP of Seren enough to get involved normally and you do like the RP of Glom to get involved normally there ... why play a Seren alt at all?

Serenwilde feels "flat, dead, bleh" because only a few get involved. Most don't get involved because it feels "flat, dead, bleh." We can't force any characters to care or become involved if their players aren't interested. Best idea seems to be trying to lure them into interest by doing things (back to the charismatic leader idea), but that's a struggle too. Or, we could give in and try bribing people to act like they care for a moment.

Serens say they don't feel involved, and yet they do nothing to try being involved. Heaven forbid some Moondancers take two minutes to move away from where they're standing talking about nothing at the nexus to come witness or participate in a short, simple ritual. Or 30 seconds to respond to a question so it doesn't always come down to the same few people to answer. And yet a few of those same people sometimes even want to know why we're not going to appoint them to a position in the guild or commune.

Well, back when I was in Hartstone, I know I used to spend time with the novices, and I think that's something that's missing. A lot of novices are treated like a second class of citizens.

Obviously I wouldn't hang out with all of them, but I'd run in-person quizzes, and teach them about the history of White Hart and Crow, and just try to get involved. If you immerse them in the story of the place, they'll get involved.

At least that's my experience.

In Glomdoring, novices are immersed immediately into the world that is Glomdoring. They become part of the story immediately, from what i've seen.

With Serenwilde, that's not the case. You get told how to work your skills, and then shoved off.. and you might never learn anything about your home unless you go asking. That's the problem. If you throw someone in the deep end, they'll be much more inclined to swim when there's no ground to walk on.

Not to be attacking you or anyone else, but I've not heard of a Moondancer ritual for months. Out of character months, that is.

I don't know if this is actually how it is in Serenwilde, seeing as I don't play there/don't have alts, however we had a similar problem in Magnagora. People weren't caring to include younger citizens, it was almost like the older veterans were trying to carry everything on their shoulders because it felt like no one else would. In reality, though, people just weren't having the opportunities to get involved, or didn't know what to do, or were ignored when they offered to help. I even found that when we started paying a lot more attention to guild novices, more stuck around, more wanted to play, and we increased activity.

You don't need some charismatic leader to change everything. That's really unrealistic, and it's putting a lot of pressure on one person. You just need a group of people, however small, to start actually caring about new players, and to start caring about things. At least -pretend- to care, and the newer people will be more inclined to care. From reading several posts, it seems people think that they need someone to come in and save them. You don't. If you're concerned, get active. Don't get frustrated if people don't catch on immediately, it won't happen all at once.

Sorry wanted to add something. About rallying behind something, I can't really say. I honestly haven't paid much attention to other orgs and their beliefs because I've been too focused on my own guild. If you really need something, pick one thing that isn't controversial, and emphasize that, even if it's not a major issue. Example: Mag has recently been pushing Great House veneration. It doesn't really have anything at all to do with politics or ideals, but it's something people can all come together on. If you can get people enthusiastic about one part of the game, it's much easier to transfer that enthusiasm to other areas.

Yeah. I mean, sometimes, if I found novices that seemed to have good potential, I'd end up spending well over an hour with them. A lot of people aren't willing to do that.. because they look at it as something keeping them from doing something else.. but in all reality, I had more fun with some novices than I had with most "vets", because a lot of them would actually RP, and they were so interested about what the White Hart stood for, and how they actually had a charge to defend him, and that there was an enemy lurking, that they could help protect against.

Now, its not this way with every novice, it doesn't work quite as well with those people completely new to IRE right from the begnning, its people who are completely new to IRE that can really be hooked if you're a good story-teller and can get the depth of their new situation across to them.

I found the best way to handle novices was to put the weight of the entire forest on their shoulders. If they believe that their participation can really ammount to something, they'll respond well.

Of course, not all novices will react by becoming super interested.. but i'd rather treat them all as if they had the potential rather than treating them all as if each one is just going to leave.

Edit: btw, i'm not suggesting spending over an hour with every novice talking about history and the world and such, that was just with novices who actually showed interest in it, after a brief teaser during the normal introduction I'd do.

You know, every time I take the hour or two to go over things with enthusiastic novices who have a lot of potential, they then end up having to leave, and then they never log on again. It happens to me time after time after time.

Is it me?

No, actually, I had it happen too.

But, I tried to have a good time with those enthusiastic novices who were good RPers. I didn't treat them like people who I had to baby, but rather I just RPed with/off of them, and like I said, even with the ones I never saw again, I ended up often having a great time.

Though.. my favorite moment was getting Dain to outguild a novice for me

Umm, this isn't about me having a great time though, it's about stirring up interest and unapathy in the guild and commune

That's not true. And I think that's part of the problem.

I've gone through a lot of guild intros in both Achaea and here, and the one thing that often made me lose interest in a guild was when I tried to RP with my instructor, and they just seemed stiff and if they were going through the normal rounds. When they let themselves enjoy the situation, rather than being obviously annoyed by needing to spend more time, or just seeming apathetic, I was a lot more interested.

I also saw similar with novices I taught. I'd watch people teach them, and the teacher was a relative yawn fest. When they'd dismiss the student, I'd end up catching up with them shortly later and just RPing with them, and it almost always had positive results.

Wasn't going to get involved in this thread, but a post fallen made kinda got me interested enough.

One thing that I see that seperates Glomdoring's awesome community from serenwilde's was that in the past Serenwilde relied on literally 1 person-narsrim, and 2 kinda backup folk-me and munsia, to do much in the combat sense. There was no real community efforts ever. I think largely that is why the three of us spent so much time fighting on celestia, we loved to fight, groups even funner when it's somewhat even, and Serenwilde was just a -ton- of pacifists who really just wanted to snuggle and kinda have things go smooth. Most of the playerbase that they had enjoyed the Golden age of Seren when we had nearly all the villages, culture, and pretty much just stomped Glomdoring into the ground every single day. Never lost a Lady/Daughter fight, always had all the fae, broke 1 million power first, had a massive amount of commodities. Basically all the things that needed to be done were already done. No real effort was needed to sustain control of villages, the fae were gathered by Narsrim daily, Astrasia worked hard as shit to stock commodities.

But during all of this every single member of Glomdoring was forced to work. If there was a raid, no matter how pointless fighting Narsrim was, every single time , every single member would def up and throw themselves at the raiders, blowing thier very limited power allotment(at the time) every single day, constantly. They grew to be a community, everyone knows everyone to some degree. Their is a very clear and established heirarchy. Two very charismatic leaders that control most of the nations direction. The champions, administrators, and guildmasters are all very dedicated and authoritative people for the most part, knowledgeable in their guild.

No bullshit is put up with in Glomdoring. If you snuggle in front of Diamante at the nexus, you get a cuff on the head and a warning. Doing so again to be a smart aleck and you get a quick trip through the wonderful world of organizational conglutination. -Really- piss off Diamante or Xavius, pray to god that you have heartstop, because Diamante will leave you locked up and afflicted beyond repair if your not a decent curer, something to be mocked and punished before being slain. Respect for your superiors is above all things. No offence to nejii, but frankly back in the day you could flip him the bird and he would apologize , there was never a single fear of breaking the rules in Serenwilde, because the few fighters were beyond punishment. Narsrim, Munsia, and I would draw collectively probably nearly a thousand power a day, a few times we were questioned, but after a while people would leave us alone with a quick word that they could just fight themselves if they didn't want to let us have our power.

It was a real dirty time for me in Serenwilde. A lot of people were content with being on top of the world. We could be total jackasses and no one would say a thing. I didn't care much for roleplay with others-- I had developed diamante an incredible amount, but never learned how to move beyond Diamante the avatar into Diamante the character. I came really close to leaving lusternia several times when it just grew stagnant. Dia was a defender of a place that was never attacked, Champion of a cause he didn't even agree with. As a player I didn't like the constant grief that was being thrown Glomdoring's way. RP or not, we took it too far for a long time. I tried to stir things up, even going so far as to suggest cessation of my own guild from the Serenwilde as a whole, but the leadership at the time eventually got me to agree that it would be unfair to new players to force them to quit the commune or face outguilding.

I finally decided to leave serenwilde, unsure exactly of where I was going to go, but the events in faethorn and the actions of Glomdoring players versus Seren players swayed my personal feelings towards joining Glomdoring, and since then I have never been a more satisfied with the world Diamante is in.

Immeadiately upon joining Glomdoring, every single novice is plunged into the tale of our forest. We break them in instantly, most quickly pick up that roleplay is required, not an option, and the vast majority jump into it wholeheartedly. A huge number of the novices we get that aren't from the WOW forums end up staying, watching Shayle work with novices is amazing, I thought it was just luck at first, but she gets them involved right off the bat. When members get lax, leaders get on their asses to keep working towards something that benefits the commune, whether it be sparring, gathering power, commodities, just getting involved. We have group hunting trips, almost no experience is gained for most, but a lot of attachment is formed, people become friends and we are all rooting for each other to excel in what we wish to do, everyone cares, it's a really amazing commune.

Glomdoring just seems to have something special about it, it knows where it wants to go, it's members are willing to take beatings to make sure we get there. There is a sense of nationalism that I have yet to see in any other nation, (and I've played my main in three). People scoff at such

Nothing matters but Glomdoring!

Glory be to Glomdoring!
Glory be to Glomdoring!
Glory be to Glomdoring!
Glory be to Glomdoring!
Glory be to Glomdoring!

Sounds silly, but hell, it's an awesome feeling sometimes knowing that at least people care enough to respond. We get the commune involved however we can, keep out the idiots, and really Glomdoring prospers. We don't care much to gather villages, knowing our members will work hard to keep us as culture center , to constantly gather shadows and essences and fae. Maybe serenwilde just needs to work hard with it's young, to get them involved, and see where it wants to go, and be willing to forge the members of that forest to do so.

One, we've had them. Offhand recently I can think of personally doing one Abjuration of Roarkian (I keep missing the month, else I'd do it every in-game year), three purifications, a few Seeking Rites, and the horribly uncreative summoning of Mother Moon during the White Hart event. Two ... again, just as you, not to be attacking anyone ... but can you hold a ritual yourself? Even if you're not feeling creative, you look at one of the three GHELPs with premade rituals described and pick one (not even counting the basic one for a newly graduated novice) to follow. Or is it again only the responsibility of the very few to try and drag everyone else into being involved again?


We've had that, as well, for many many months. Very small group who actually cares about things in general and the new players. It hasn't really been working. It's been frustrating all along but moreso lately I think because those few people in that very small group have been under that whole pressure thing for awhile now. Long times under pressure contribute to burnout. Hurray for when everyone in that small group finally cracks, right?

Tsu, every time someone in the Moondancers asks how they can help, you ignore them, or at least, you don't have an answer for them. Kelysa hasn't logged in in how long after asking that question and being ignored?

... what question? Am I the only one who answers questions now? And I saw her just a few days ago in one of the brief minutes the thunderstorms and rain let up enough to let my connection work long enough to pop in a bit.
As far as I know, Kelysa is the last one who's asked how she can help like that and who demonstrated by her actions that she was willing and interested in doing so. She got appointed undersec and bumped from gr1 to gr3 almost immediately. Before her, nothing of that sort for months, to my knowledge. I get plenty of messages, but none about "what can I do to help?". Plenty of the "why isn't there a list of little easy steps I can do to skyrocket to gr10?" sort and attitudes of "hunting gorgogs is more important than taking a minute or two to run around Faethorn and check for Fae." For other general questions of how people can help, checking for Fae is the first recommendation. Pointing out the scrolls to help people learn how to teach novices is another ... and of course actually teaching Leading pixies is another. If people won't do those things, how can I expect they'll do anything else?

Yes, I willfully ignore people. Right. Meh, I wonder sometimes why I bother trying to make sure I talk to everyone who starts talking with me as soon as I'm spotted. I'd get more done with less distractions if I didn't bother. Might even find time to hunt or visit a village or two!

What I probably should do is resign and get someone else in there as GM and hang around a smidge to help them get used to feeling alone and distanced from the guild before going inactive to focus on RL. Not that it'd help them, having lost an active, involved character. But it might make more people get off their bums and do something then, perhaps.

Bothersome time ... 10 of 7 AM ... time to sleep.

Lusternia was always about individuals. Let's face it - 90% of novices will never graduate, and out of those who do, 90% will never past GR 1. Out of such big lot of people, only few are actually willing to do anything for the good of something else than themselves. And to make an organisation strong, you have to:
-encourage such people to join. Which is not doable, because you cannot really "advertise" that your city/commune needs active, dedicated novices. All they know is the guilds' short descriptions and their names.
-make them stay. How? Easy enough - if they are willing to help and actually do so, give them favours. Commune/city, guild favours - doesn't matter. Anything to make their ranks increase. Nothing more disappointing for a helper to see they got a favour and are still GR 1. So give more if you have to.

Now, what's the problem for Serenwilde? First, we lost many people. They either moved away or became inactive. Not that we can do a lot about it, people leave when they want to.
Second, we are the "good" forest. It encourages to join the "hippy" population. The kind of that doesn't want to help the well-being of the commune, they only care about themselves. Be it hunting (more often than you'd thought, most of so-called IC pacifists are horrible hypocrites) or just frolicking around randomly. People who join Glomdoring or Magnagora, they already know they want to play an "evil" character. They are willing to prove or sacrifice themselves for the betterment of their organisation. I have no idea how it works for New Celest though. But Serenwilde? We will always get the uncaring kind (I am not saying that all of our novices won't help, or that all of non-Seren do, we only get significantly more of 'em than the rest). When you talk on CT and feel like nobody's caring, it is because they actually DO NOT CARE.


Now, my solution? We can't really force/encourage people into caring. Glomdoritos think they might do so, but it's an illusion - because they automatically get people who care more. I simply suggest to take a closer eye on those who care inside the 'Wilde, and make sure they will stay. Ignore the unmotivated crowd - not worth our time.

Not going to argue about Astrasia's contributions, but I've been there pretty much since the start and there's always been more than just Narsrim gathering fae, so please, don't overlook the efforts of other people who have been doing stuff.

I suppose on viable solution is to basically close down everything, take some time to sort it out, and start up again, like just lose every village bar Estelbar and just defend, work out what your aiming for now, where you want to head, work on getting combat and influence programs going and lightly force people into it. Ohh and purge the pacifists, we needs us a good ol purging.

I didn't say I didn't like the RP of Seren...the Wilde was actually the first place I went to when I started to play Lusternia, which was I think at least 2-3 years ago, so Glom wasn't about. I stopped playing for a while, and when I came back I went straight for the Wilde. I really did love it because the first time I played I very well taken care of, my teacher explained to me many things and I had wonderful people talking to me etc. I stopped after I got to GR 1 because I didn't know what to do, things kind of went flat because I didn't know I could go to Ethereal or what to do to help further the guild. Its kind of my fault that I can't do similar things in the Wilde with my alt because I dislike being a novice again, especially the time limit. But I do like the time limit over taking a novicequest (imperian's novice thing for some guilds) but I do however like doing novice quest to become a full fledged member (other impy thing). So it is my fault I can't do things like that...but also I have no reason to. In Glom I cook food so I can put it in the guild shop (need to get on to do that but I keep missing Yeralih!!), I hunt essence because of the power restriction. To me the restriction(powered blocking even after novicehood) is a sign of "Hey! We don't have enough power!" So I go hunt for essence. There's not motivation to do that in Seren, from what I've seen so far.

It would probably help to get rid of the one scroll that says the Hartstone comes before the Serenwilde.

But, in the general sense, what you need is some good ass-kicking. I don't mean you need to militarize to the extent of Glomdoring or Magnagora, but you need to in some way discourage apathy and encourage activity. This could be anything from kicking people out to very actively favoring the involved persons over the uninvolved. From what you guys have posted, this could work well. A lot of people seem to want to get promoted. Make it very clear that working with/for the commune, such as in Faethorn, or training novices, whatever, will get them on the fast track to promotion. It sounds like they have some modicum of ambition. Channel it.

So, in summary; find what your citizens care about and make it so that connects with them working harder.

Tsuki - you're not allowed to resign. end of discussion.

Its true the dancers at least do not give out enough GFs, but we won't hand them out randomly and if no-one else is willing to nominate people and tell us what they've been doing chances is they'll feel ignored - even if its partially their own fault.

Regarding novices - our training program does start with here are your skills - go play with them, but all novices who get half-way to graduation *should* receive a pre-graduation talk discussing their guild specialisations and what they can do for the guild.
Maybe we need to expand that to cover what they can do for the wilde as well.

I also really like the idea of a graduation "quest" - we do have the seeking rite, but I'd like to see some pre-requisites thrown in to get them more active.
In fact - I think its going to happen as sooner rather than later.

Tsuki, since you're not resigning , next time I catch you IC I want to run some of the details by you. They don't belong in this forum so I won't mention them here.