This is NOT what happened at all. We didn't WIN anything. We don't have the spirits now, and you do, so we're back exactly where we were before Glomdoring suddenly got its free demands on us (except Glomdoring has spirits which can demonstrably pwn us at will, and agreements aside: let's face it, whether Glomdoring can be relied to keep to agreements or not, these spirits are traitors to begin with). We got away with having an agreement dissolved that we were forced into in the first place, but it's more than a little short-sighted to infer from that that we've come out ahead in any fahsion.

I cannot believe someone thinks Serenwilde came out ahead from this event.



Let's see, we had an event that involved some cool intra-Serenwilde RP, didn't affect Glom at all.

Then Hart was a wanker, and so we had to humiliate ourselves by asking for Glomdoring's help. (score, Glomdoring)

Due to various factors, a set of demands we had no control over was essentially forced upon Serenwilde. This includes humiliating ourselves again by admitting something that goes against our beliefs. (score, Glomdoring)

For well over a week, those demands stand and are followed. Glomdoring gains a tangible advantage in the Faethorn quest. (score, Glomdoring)

Charune tells Serenwilde to dissolve the oath, revealing us to most objective observers to be dishonourable and without any integrity. (score, Glomdoring)

In the process, Glomdoring loses the tangible advantage it had in Faethorn. (score, Serenwilde... or is that just fair rebalancing?)

The spirits then go on a rampage in Serenwilde, for no reason other than that they can, including wyrd/night/shadows being spread throughout the forest including the moonhart. Glomdoring temporarily loses one skill for the day. (score, Glomdoring, a little Serenwilde)

Oh, and we both got a skill, which was very cool.

Eh, perspective is a funny thing. Personally, I think we both came out behind. I was very surprised to hear your perspective Elryn, actually, not what I expected either.

What perspective did you hear? Pre or post despair?

I don't get this part...
What do you mean no reason other than they can? What about the whole "If you reneg may the spirits be returned to us" bit....???

I propose that the administration should threaten Serenwilde with something real and tangible. Like burning the forest to the ground.

Wait, they don't give a damn about the trees. Maybe threaten them with killing Hart?

No, they don't give a damn about the Spirits, either.

Threaten to prove once and for all that Glomdoring is not Tainted? They'd just ignore that... hm.

Oh, I know. Take away their ability to do custom emotes and automatically kill them whenever they say 'Tainted'.

Well, from what I heard, Glomdoring didn't send the spirits back... they came of their own volition. Why would they care about the agreement between the two communes - they weren't involved in it. Not only do they hate Serenwilde anyway (whether Serenwilde follows its obligations or not is absolutely irrelevant, they want to see the destruction of the forest in either case with equal passion), they are spirits who actually broke their oaths to Hart/Serenwilde/etc. Getting upset about oathbreaking is a little hypocritical.


That's a bit silly, are you trying to make some kind of point?

Ok...

1)Apologies for turning this into something of an off topic arguement. Bad idea on my part to post it here. My bad again for replying the first time.

2)Regardless of who came out ahead, the event is in the history books.

3)I said it once, but I'll say it again: The fact that the admin's DO events is awesome, and I'd like to thank them regardless for putting effort into this stuff.

On that note

/threadkill

I admit I wasn't there, but I don't get how you can say that the spirits were not involved in it. They were the cause, and the garanture of the entire episode.

The whole point, was the spirits...

They weren't involved in the deal. They were trapped in an egg. Serenwilde made a pact with Glomdoring. The Spirits had no say, and no part in that deal. They were objects bartered in the agreement, not party to it.

My slave starts burning my crops. I ask someone to take my slave off my hands, and say that if I don't pay you, the slave will come back to my home.

I don't pay you, and now the slave has to go back to my home.

How is the slave's desires to burn your crops not part of the equation?

Here's a question. Why did the slave go back to burn your crops only now? Obviously, it's because you weren't paid and thus turned him away. If he had a burning desire to go back and burn your crops, you must have stopped him, until you decided not to. The slave is never getting paid. He doesn't care whether you get paid or not, he just wants to burn crops.

Obviously, the "deal" wasn't made in a vacuum, and the spiritual reverberations surrounding the oath bound the spirits whether or not they wanted to be bound or the parties had an intent to bind them. Such are the twists and turns of fate.

On another note, I truly wonder what is expected of the admin. On one hand, we are slammed for not doing anything, and when we do respond to current events, we are slammed by certain individuals for not doing things exactly the way they think we should.

In response to the thread on Glomdoring, yes, of course the reason we had the wyrd event was because of a player demand to have something different than a 'tainted' forest. So too were some of the events in Faethorn designed to move the communes in a different direction. Ultimately, though, it is up to the players to move the RP along.

We do try to throw some twists and turns and surprises through events, but some of you react with such hostility and vehemence that it makes some of us wonder if it is better that we do nothing at all.

Odd, it seemed to me at the time that it was Viravain who didn't want a Tainted forest, and I therefore thought it was the admin that didn't want it to be "tainted".

Just noting that, as a comment about perception, nothing else.

I think there are plenty of people who like the way things could be going. Maybe not exactly as they've been done, but in the options such events open up. There are, however, people who are quite vocal (*coughelryncough*) in their displeasure whenever something they don't like happens. And the leadership of the Seren doesn't really ask for anyone's opinion, they just do what they want. Usually this is pretty cool, but when it comes to finding the merest loophole to keep the RP exactly the same, it irks me to no end. Sure, you CAN find loopholes, but that doesn't mean you should.

Most of us who dislike the Wyrd from an OOC perspective, for its influence and such on the game, do so because we perceive it as being nothing more than an attempt by the staff to appease those members of Glomdoring who were fed up with having to be 'the tainted forest' - mostly just because they didn't like the theme, and preferred being a 'dark forest', or because they didn't want to have to defend their beliefs and wanted the game's code to do it for them.

Furthermore, the actual effects of the event were minor. They barely changed actual roleplay, because Glomdoring is still 'tainted' in all but their own eyes, just like they were before. What it adds up to is every room in Glomdoring and adjacent to it saying 'wyrd' instead of 'taint' and its nastiness being toned down a few notches. The event that created it, however, was huge. It essentially remade an entire forest using a new, foreign power that was entirely strange and mysterious. That's a huge change, but almost nothing came of it. I quote the events post.

Scholars later discovered that 'wyrd' was a fae word that could be
loosely translated to mean "a powerful event which changes the course of
the Fates". Viravain and Isune together created the Wyrd of Glomdoring,
made manifest by the Ebonglom Wyrdling, which had emerged from the
cocoon. Apparently, the goddesses had attempted to recreate the forest
itself, Isune who tried to instill beauty and Viravain who tried to
invoke greater power. However, because the visions of the goddesses were
warped by Kethuru, they did not touch the forest at all, although they
individually thought they were doing so. Instead, their magics only
touched the taint itself.

Thus, the Wyrd of Glomdoring came to be, which transformed the taint
itself. What has sprung in its place is nothing anyone could have
imagined or foreseen. The word "Wyrd" now only means one thing to the
fae: that which was once the taint which now rests in Glomdoring, where
the earth itself is wyrden and the repercussions are only just beginning
to be felt.

What repercussions? What change of Fate? When I first saw the Wyrd I was excited, because it was something entirely new and extremely interesting. I expected its presence to be felt strongly and to have a very real influence on the outlook of Glomdoring, Serenwilde, and even the cities, and to be a key part of game's continuing storyline. Instead, it's just purple taint, and nothing has come of it. This can be blamed on both the players, and their unwillingness to adapt, ect. and the staff for failing to play the wyrd out to its full potential.

That's my two sovereigns.

Estarra, you should know better than anyone else that, no matter what you do, someone is always going to bitch. There's no escaping that, and all you can hope is to do what is best for the game on the long term.

In my opinion, if anything, the administration erred on the side of caution - The people who are to blame for this, as far as I can tell, are the Serenwilders for just shrugging off roleplay and being incapable of change.

This is not something that is precipitated overnight. I'm glad you try to make events which further a particular goal, and I appreciate that effort. However, recent events could have been handled much better than they have been. It often seems like the ones behind them get carried away and don't really consider the consequences for all the sides that it affects, objectively.

I believe a mistake of haste was made early in the game's development, and rather than accept that mistake and pause to consider what can be done about it, endless (often seemingly hasty) patches are applied to appease whatever subset of players is in earshot of the right person at the time. I can't stand here and say I know better than anyone else what will work, but I'm at the stage where I just want a solution that means I can find something enjoyable about Lusternia again.

I wish I could look at the current status of Serenwilde and pin all the recent alterations and turmoil on certain leadership decisions that took us in a different direction than we would have liked. But realistically, all our choices have been reactive by necessity, and it is not changes wrought by the players which have changed the philosophical landscape. There have been few if any events which had any real potential for an effectual choice to be made, given current standings.

There -has- been opportunity to react better to what is changed around us, sure. It would have been much better to simply throw the past out the window and be completely flexible in what the organization stands for from one day to the next. I'm stubborn, obviously, and I don't like abandoning the very things that drew me into Lusternia. Am I vocal? Of course. But the underlying problems that frustrate me haven't really changed.

Eventually, I'll get over this once again, and I'll try my best to ignore or forget about the jarring elements so that I can have a good time. But again it will be treated as bitching and whining and irrelevant, until the next time the same problem emerges again.

Edit: Wouldn't it be wonderful if both sets of players could sit down with the admin, OOCly, and work out some lasting solution for how the two communes will be restructured.

yes

Which mistake was this?
The way Hajamin protected Viravain in the void?
The way Magangora reacted to Viravain untainting Glomdoring?
The way Viravain hated Fain but liked Raezon?
The fact that Rowenna was undead but Viravain wanted her to give birth?
The fact that Viravain didn't like Lisarea's advice?
The fact that some members of Glomdoring and some members of Magnagora were trying to form a union between the two?
The fact that Magnagora wouldn't let glomdoring act indepedant for many years because they were trying to make Glomdoring in debt?
The fact that alchemy is only done in forest communes, and Serenwilde had banned Magangora from getting Alchemy?


Which one of those was the pivitol mistake, because all of those were shaped glomdoring into what it is today. There is a larger list I could make, but I'm running out of time.


Oh wait, I forgot. People would rather hit the "RP reset button" and start from fresh because they don't like the consequences of the actions.