It wasn't that Viravain wanted Rowena to have BAABIIIEES!, it was that Rowena knew that Viravain would kill her if she was completely devoid of life, and therefore useless to her (not how it sounds) i.e.: infertile.

True, but that was too nuanced for my little comparison chart

There are really two groups I blame for the current mess.

1) The Serenwilde gods who kept prodding the Moondancers to become more and more fanatically belligerent toward Glomdoring.

2) The Serenwilde leaders who let them.

Talking about the gods' role is simple. They wanted to promote conflict, keep things exciting, maybe on a bit of a power trip. Who wouldn't be if playing a god? But I left the Moondancers because it had basically become an arm of Lisaera's order, and I was no longer allowed to question her will.

Talking about the players involved is more complex, but it keeps coming back to one declaration I've heard over and over from them and their defenders: "I'll be damned if I'll compromise my role-play." Oddly, I keep hearing this from the same people who defend whatever they choose to role-play by saying, "It's just a game." If Lusternia's so all-fired unimportant, there's no reason in the world for you not to change your role-play, now, is there?

Whenever I'm faced with this particular bit of illogic, I think back on the best RP campaign I ever ran, now many years dead, and about the mule-headedness that killed it.

Set in the Star Wars universe, this was a tabletop RPG where I was gamemaster, and the players consisted of my brother and four wonderful young women. Together they were a rebel cell, going on fast-paced, cinematic missions that kept everyone's hearts pumping and attention riveted. In a lifetime of role-play, that campaign holds more memorable moments that get revisited than all the others put together.

So how did it start to decline? The token male player. My brother seemed to grow agitated with having all these women around him, and the farther we got into the campaign, the more persistently he would throw out misogynist remarks "in character". He would run the women down for no particular reason other than they were there. Forget that the five of them were constantly dependent on each other for their lives, and that a couple of the women could have taken his head off if they chose, he was forever baiting them in a very mean-spirited way.

Finally he pushed it so far that I just took him aside and told him he was destroying the game. Here we had this wonderful group of friends whom he was constantly insulting, and they were pretty well fed up. It had to stop or the game would die.

His response? He couldn't stop, he wouldn't stop, because that particular nastiness was his "role-play". And it shouldn't matter to the other players, because he did it all "in-character". We argued over that for what must have been a solid hour, but he wouldn't budge.

The ladies didn't buy it. The game died. The only player I really see anymore is the one I'd already married. Even my brother I'm barely on speaking terms with.

You can't have it both ways, folks. This can't be "just a game" and still trump the considerations of real life.

Have any of you ever heard Estarra snap before like she's been snapping at unnamed people via this thread? We're nearing the breaking point, and something has to give. If you would rather see Lusternia itself die a cold, empty death than budge one inch in your "roleplay", then you're not the sort of person I want to know.

Personally, I say everyone should take a step back, take a deep breath, and declare peace on each other while we all work together to figure out what's gone wrong with Lusternia's innovative approach to conflict.

Has anyone considered that maybe Serenwilde isn't the goody goody "we're the high moral ground" commune they think it is? I love what has happened to Serenwilde. There is a lot of tension inside the commune, beliefs -are- being challenged, contrary to what people are saying. The leadership isn't just going on a rampage, all their decisions are discussed at length before any action is taken (I of course can't hear all of it, but the discussion on the public and less-public aethers proves that). "Serenwilde isn't the Forest I want it to be!" Tough. The players have shaped Serenwilde into the Forest it is, and I think the RP in it has done that.

Same thing with the other organizations. Not one is like the other, they are all different and unique, and getting darker and deeper all the time from what I see. It's no longer "Celenwilde is good! Magnaglom is bad!", which I think is awesome. Being able to break up the organizations into such static, uninteresting categories is boring. Now, the organizations are being defined by player action, which is really what the game is all about.

Just my 2c.

I like:
- new stats gain and buffs
- changes made in last few envoys and im looking forward for more
- storyline

What i would like to see changed:
- add more independence to cities/communes (becose some nation leaders would ban trading with enemies, we need Bob to start sell enchantments and more potions, for a lot more then they are worth, so black market during a war would be possible, and PROFITABLE
So Celest could go on war with Serenwilde and not be afraid that he wont get refills, i bet there are some alchemists in Serenwilde that would like to earn some gold during that war, and if they dont then Celest could get refills from Bob at astronomical prices. Who said that war is cheap?? Cities and communes should pay a lot on war preparations, right now they spent only on guards, where are comms reserves on case of war? Where are supplies for armies? :>

- some quests are just too common. Like sea quest. I bet that if battle would occure less often people would be glad. Those quests are nice but making them twice per week is too much for most of us.

- adding some quests that would allow cities to hurt communes!!! That and my first point and belive me Lusternia will be fun again. There will be much more political choices then how it is right now.

Celst cant go on war with Serens if we wont get support (read: refills) from Glomdoring and it isnt so easy, cose their stupid rules dotn allow them to trade with Celestines. Thats why see point 1. WE NEED BLACK MARKET.

Hmm im sure i wanted to write something else too but cant remeber now. Will add it later when it get back to me.

1. Aether Ship Races!!! Weeee! That's what I like to see. Or at least races for riders and their mounts. (Trying hard to think up excuses why anyone should invest in riding) Tuning your ship or training your mount for a big race! Gamblers would have another excuse to go betting-happy.

2. An active system for rivalry and competition between cartels, be it private or commune/city owned. (Considering how much people have spend to set up a private cartel, there should a mini game for them) Don't know how a cartel rivalry system would go about; maybe market dominance? The higher the cartel is in the cartel rankings, the goods the members of the cartel make would be of better quality.

3. The Demon Lords of Nil unleashing their demon horde to Celestia and/or the Supernals leading their angel armies to Nil. Thus begins the Time of the Cosmic Wars!!!!

4. An unholy alliance between rats, weevils, hamsters and gorgogs once happening every long while, following a randomly selected character. Imagine someone like Tully the Janitor leading, or Visearis.... The only purpose of the destroy-all alliance is to um, destroy all in the Basin!!! *evil snort*

5. A sort of 'Game of Houses' system is introduced. Once a family line is established, the founders have the option to enter the 'Game of Houses'. Families will be ranked in the Game. To move up, members of the family can accumulate points. Points are gained by doing quests, any position of office held by family members, guild and commune/city ranks of family members, personal wealth (in sovereigns not credits), ect. Every 10 years there is a ceremony held at Avechna's Peak, a masquerade ball, where the highest ranked family is raised to be 'The House among Houses'. Members of the raised family would be awarded a mini artifact, a jewelry of distinction. Not sure what the effects would be. Maybe a spectacular boost in charisma, increase damage in ego battles and or debating, mobs reaction becomes different and reverent, ect. Imagine the would be dynamics and rivalries between families that could happen. But be warned, if left unchecked, the 'Game of Houses' can grossly corrupt any organization, be it commune/city or guild.

6. Rediscovery to the Rising of Vernal Gods! oooooooo But this would be no joke. It would cost a commune/city millions billions gazillions of power in the undertaking, plus some temporary minor bad effects to their nexus of power. The Raised Vernal Gods would not have sweeping powers like the Elder Gods. Still a thunderous new class would still be introduced - the Vernal Gods- I ,OCC & IC, have long thought of this since the Threat of Kethuru when we were tossing ideas of any solution in fighting a Soulless. What would happen to the Basin if Elder Gods and Vernal Gods exist together? Imagine the world shattering dynamics and intrigue as Divine, pure and mortal-raised, eye each other and vie to influence Lusternia.

7. A much diminished Soulless returns. Weighing that IT cannot face the combined might of the Elder Gods, the Soulless lets out a 'beaconing'. Only those very high in the circles of experience may hear it. (80? 90? 100?) If a character chooses to answer it, he or she is given the choice to serve the Soulless, with the Soulless acceptance. It is important to note that if a character chooses to serve, it is PERMANENT. There is no going back. The character's mortal soul is destroyed and in exchange he or she is linked to the Soulless. There would be no outward change to the now doom-minion *chuckle* Thus the ability to infiltrate any and every level of Basin life is possible. The Admin who would RP the Soulless, who have to be tricksy and crafty, and very selective of choosing IT's followers. Needless to say a would be soulless-linked would need to understand the very essence of keeping a secret. Imagine what would happen to the character if it is revealed what he or she truly is.... The Basin and all planes would provide no decent hiding place for the character. Unknown, the Soulless and the soulless-linked plot and maneuver endlessly for Lusternia's destruction.

8. Lastly maybe an annual (RL) award is held OOC, maybe here in the forums, celebrating players and characters who had contributed to the role play of Lusternia for the year. More of a nod and a pat then anything else. Any excuse to celebrate is a good excuse to celebrate!

Why I choose Lusternia over any multiplayer online experience is because of the real boundless possibilities here. Can't wait 2 to 3 years from now and see how Lusternia would evolve. Good work Admins.

I love the house idea, except you have to revamp the family system first or I swear to the gods I'll cry and overdose on antidepressants.

I had some ideas for Demigods while at work, since they are supposed to just be the beginning:

-Demigods being able to buy themselves some sort of "aspect" status. So with ~100 million essence, they can decide to make themselves the god of wind/poison/fire/electricity/whatever and gain special powers. Other demigods could contest them for that status and so on and so on.

-Several Demigodstatus, like demigod - masterdemigod - elder demigod, coming with like....another few exits in the havens or a very small buffgain (like +1 con +1 dex or something). Cost hell of a lot of essence too.

-If Demigods are really powerful, aspects and elder as well, they can have small orders that are linked to Elder gods. IF someone would offer to the demigod, half of it would go to the demi, half of it to the elder. He could favour people by giving up his own advantages, like he gives that person level 2 regen, he'd be left with level 1 and so on. He could zap people too, but only if one of his ordermembers had vengeance on them.


Just a few ideas.

Those sound pretty interesting, actually. Except 100 million essence is a huuuuuge amount. You're talking about.. 50,000 spawned astral mobs.

If you wanna be pimp, you hafta pay the price.

odd, even the elder gods don't have "aspects" and arn't the gods of things...

Well, they are allpowerful. So the Demigods would master at least one thing.

- More indepth mob combat... would mean a major project but it would add so much depth to certain things. Like Supernals/Demon Lords/Avatar killing for example. If we were able to do more things to mobs and they were able to cure themselves then they could be made relatively harder without making them impossible to kill as long as a solid strat could be applied. As of now, because of mechanics I cant really think of any plausible solution to that dillemma. It's either they become invincible or they will drop in an instant as long as we bring enough people. The only real strat than can be applied is when dealing with the opposing player forces which isnt exactly there all the time. The feature would also allow muc more interesting hunting and could enhance other features such as quests.

- weight... Now currently I know its a bit absurd to add in weight because well all of us would just topple over with the amount of items we all have. Of course such things would need to be addressed as well. But weight can add certain balancing factors to the game be it combat or economics which arent applied in IRE games. One for example is gold. While some people may use the bank accounts a lot of other people just leave their gold in their inventory. I for one had several hundred thousand coins on me at some point. If we werent allowed to hold as much gold the interest rates of the banks would have a much better gold sink effect. Another would be how we actually have kegs, cubes in our inventory. Could also be applied to armour and implement a benefits and disadvantages to different types.

- rare items, while I wouldnt really want to have any overpowering items or overshadow artifacts. Having items that are hard to get can make things more interesting. While mining for items can be a really boring task it still another thing to do within the realms. Also it adds more novelty to items.

- practical application of items. Normal clothing for example besides aesthetic purposes they have no use. Boots for example maybe they could be made enchantable with waterwalk, swift, currents-resistance etc then you would have to pick what type of boots you wear. Also terrain could be more hostile to players who arent wearing proper clothes. Walking bare footed in the dessert? Wearing thin clothing in a blizzard? Wearing thick clothing in the heat?

- Weather system... maybe its just me but it seems a bit nonexistent at the moment.

- Plot development? While its cool that we having opposing sides and all everything does get old and without a dynamic plot, people will either get burned out or simply get bored. I think what glues a lot of people is the question... whats going to happen next. Once people realize that whats happening is the samething over and over they will drift away. Of course its a thin line in the sense that it can upset a lot of people but there are ways of dealing with such things. The perception of change can be bad, but even the worst things such as fallen cities can be seen as a very indepth character devolpment. I mean I wouldnt mind be from a fallen city, would actually be pretty cool.

- Realm Mystery development... one major fantasy a lot of people have in common is to have adventures. In an rpg the fantasy is played out but before you can venture into the unknown there has to be something unknown. From what I've noticed IRE likes throwing out their new creations into the open, ie new areas etc or quests. So what happens is everybody rushes into it then eventually after a couple of days itll die out then back to sitting at the nexus waiting for the next hint that theres something out there worth looking into. I really think it would be different if we didnt know there were or arent things left out there to discover. I think discoveries are one of the more enjoyable scenarios that can happen in an rpg.

Quest systems - they're a bit too easy.

I had an idea to give titans/demigods an awesome advantage without overpowering them in combat. Titans get to hold an extra 100% reserves, cumulative with powerplex jewel. Demigods get the same advantage, but they also get a skill, called Shard Awakening or something like that. It empties their reserves, and they need at least 200% in them, and it gives them the "Shardfire" defense which acts as unlimited reserves. While this defense is up, they're reserves are too hot to be transferred with energylink or necromancy drain. It lasts until the next time you Phoenix, assuming Demigods will be fixed to not have to Phoenix on every death.

I like that.

And Algers weather system is cool!!

I want people to suffer freeze in blizzard if they dont have warm clothes and maybe slickness on desert if they have full plate with tones cloak and coat on top of that.
Lets make weather do something not just annoy us with wind or blizzards!!!

Ugh, that would be more annoying than anything. What would it add to the game? Annoyance and atmosphere. Is the atmosphere worth the annoyance of having to carry multiple sets of clothing and write triggers to switch between them? I strongly doubt it.

If you implement the weight system you wont even be able to carry all the clothes.

Annoyance maybe but thats an opinion. I personally would rather have additional factors like that to take into consideration, adds more flavor. Of course I wont deny that there are people who would see not being able to go anywhere they want so freely with out thinking about things like that as more of a hindrance than another factor they can play with. But is inconvenience of more importance than the atmosphere, immersion, combat possibilities that such a system can offer? Some would doubt, yes, but Id think otherwise.

If I remember right, the weather system on Achaea was originally how Alger described, but it was too much of a pain to change clothes every area, people complained and it was removed.

I just wanted to post in response to Estarra, because her post made me very sad. I understand though- I mean, after a couple weeks of reading the forums, even I am beginning to find the once-amusing bickering tiresome in the extreme. It's very depressing that some players choose to spend so much time arguing and deriding each other, often based on their IC beliefs and actions, accusing each other of "ruining" the rp of other people, insulting each other, and only taking a timeout from that delightful activity to bitch about how the gods are ruining rp. I am not saying this is the intent of the people involved, but the end result is a miasma of bitterness and disillusioned anger that touches every conversation on the topic and threatens to spread and overwhelm people who aren't even involved in the debate.

Estarra, I for one am glad that the gods are so involved in trying to foster rp and respond to the players. Many of the people on this thread have said as much, so I don't feel I'm going out on a limb by saying that a number of players feel the same way I do. That kind of involvement is what helps make Lusternia a very different place from many muds where the admins don't take the time to lift their noses out of the code and interact with the players. Even some of the arguers have said that despite not necessarily agreeing with the route events take, they are glad that the gods are involved in rp and responsive to what the players are saying and doing.

This recent event was clearly a response to players' frustration with the outcome of the last event, and I (and many others) sincerely appreciate that. I know it must be frustrating to see people constantly bitching about the end results...but that's the thing. As has already been said, you can't please everyone all the time. There will ALWAYS be complaining, there will ALWAYS be a handful of people who are never satisfied no matter what you do. Please don't let it dishearten you...most of us are very happy to see you all being interactive and responsive with the playerbase.

This is one of the major problems with player feedback, I think...Even when the gods are trying to be accomodating, a forum full of various threads naturally confuses things. The confusion is the result of a number of different people, asserting a number of different complaints and ideas of what they think the game should be doing, not to mention different perceptions of what is currently going on from a development point of view (ie, what IS the state of the current rp?). I do not know how I would manage to take all that in and try to form a coherent picture of what the playerbase as a whole is thinking and wants and needs from the game, so I can appreciate how difficult Estarra and her staff must find this task. I salute you guys for keeping it up, for not just throwing up your hands and tuning the players out.

Please keep up the good work!

Agreed, wholeheartedly.