Glomdoring was actually fully untainted? Not renamed and the final step avoided, what if it was actually normal forest, just darker and more forbidding than Serenwilde's? The Great Spirits would be nasty and cruel, but not 'corrupted' and changed, just two Nature Spirits that happen to be mean and nasty. The undead would be removed, shadowfaelings would (regrettably) remain but just as a legacy of Rowena's actions. Rowena and Brennan would become alive again, or they would be destroyed and two new characters would replace them. We're almost there already, why not take the last step and make them 'Gloriana'? Then Serenwilde can safely relate to them purely on political terms, not as an opposing force. And events don't need to be forced on either commune to make them view the other in a certain way. The relationship can be entirely determined by their own beliefs and current goals, rather than any significant divide in actual nature.


Alternatively, what if Serenwilde was 'Wyrded', but remained the same in belief and appearance? Again, the difference between the communes could be safely reduced to political and philosophical disagreements.


Would either of these alternatives be endurable?

The second no, the Glomdoring becoming normal and not tainted, I suppose so, though they would just have to alter the Wyrden nature, and keep it as Wyrd really. It would be a decent solution, though chances are it wont happen since I doubt really either side wants to be changed unconditionally to the other.

Well, it seems to me a viable option now... it would mean Serenwilde has no ground to stand on in calling Glomdoring unnatural, anti-fae, etc, which I believe is what most Glomdoring players would like to see. The dark RP they have can remain, and Serenwilde's philosophy won't get raped by future events which treat them in essence the same, because they actually will be.

It would justify both communes having the same difficulty in collecting fae, it would mean that either commune swaying Maeve is not a shocking loss for their form of Nature, it explains why both Hartstone/Blacktalon summon unwyrded trees, it would justify some commune vs city events, and it would give some of us an opportunity to build up a sense of identity that is not based on contradictions.

If I remember correctly, the reason most people wanted Glomdoring as a tainted organization initially was because they wanted that huge discrepancy between the two communes - there was a fear Glomdoring would become too similar to Serenwilde. Now, most efforts by Glomdoring and most admin seem to be aimed towards minimizing those differences anyway, and I know that the opinion of most players is much different than what was predicted. Glomdoring doesn't want to be the corrupt, ruinous and twisted commune that people once thought, they want to be a unique alternative forest to Serenwilde that has the same goals and fears, and the same integrity as a viable nature commune, just with a different outlook on things.

Could this not finally allow them to achieve that? Without forcing Serenwilde into further philosophical dilemmas.

Would I as a Glomdoring player mind it if Glomdoring was untainted (That is, if you consider the wyrd taint ) No, I really wouldn't. Do I mind that it's wyrded? No, I don't. Hell, the only reason I minded that it was tainted in the first place was because I hated being grouped with the generic taint. Glomdoring isn't about the taint, or the wyrd. Not really. The only reason the wyrd is held so highly is because Glomdoring is about Viravain, and She made the wyrd. If Viravain were to one day say like "Oops, forgot to untaint it, don't like this, bybye" Well then Glomdoring would follow her. Glomdoring is about Glomdoring so yeah. But on the other hand, I highly doubt the wyrd will ever be removed. It's such a neat concept. Is it taint? Is it natural? Is it alien space goo? It's a good foil.


As for Serenwilde becoming wyrded? That'd just be weird. That's like saying "What if we rename the Glomdoring Serenwilde and have it untainted and normal, and we rename the Serenwilde, Glomdoring and have it wyrded." It's weird

I meant as an alternative to Glomdoring being untainted, not together with it. Heh, that would just flip the problem around.

I think that I and a few others decided that it was wyrm poo.

decided?

It techincally is

I personally like working with the "tainted" forest. It's a fresh perspective that the other Iron Realms haven't really done much with. What's more interesting to figure out than a piece of nature that breaks all of the rules we're used to in reality?

Druken would follow Viravain if She lifted the Wyrd's touch, but he, and I, wouldn't like the change much. That, and it'd just take away that extra element of intrigue. Being dark and forboding without the Wyrd as our impetus would -really- make us seem "emo and like... woe is me, sigh, omg kill everything."

I certainly see where you're coming from. It'd be easier to communicate that way. But why in the world would we, as players, want things to be easy? People show up for conflict! Not permanent resolution. That's called "The End".

I didn't read all the details, however, one aspect of the wyrd that is not true about just dark forest, is that like kudzu, even non forest locations are wyrded, and give blactalon powers.

ICly I believe this is a secret, if you weren't aware of it allready.

so for example, the swamps in Glomdoring mechanically are the same as the forests.

Would I mind?

Well... no. I mean, ICly that's how we feel anyway. We're Not tainty, we say, we're Wyrden, and it's not our fault if your heathen eyes can't accept that we're superior as well.

But.. if you're suggesting removing the Wyrd, that's a bit different entirely. Glomdoring's taken the Wyrd and made it into our "thing," so removing it is just about out of the question entirely. It would have to be some amazing event that would take place to work around that...

As for Rowena and Brennan, that would be interesting as well... I'm up for making Rowena less cranky and Spit-whore-ish all the way, which making her "alive" again could do. I dunno.. I mean, yeah, it could happen.. but... what exactly would it accomplish in the long run? "Yay, we officially aren't tainty... we've been telling people that all along... now what?"

Bleh, I just woke up and perhaps I'm not thinking clearly anywho.

I know that IC, Shayle would be more than happy to kick Rowena's obnoxious butt to the highway. Especially after this recent event, Rowena is treading on thin ice with Shayle. Trust me when I say, our conversations yesterday were anything but snuggles and love.

I'd be disappointed to see the end of the Wyrd, but yeah Elryn, I see where you are coming from. I'm not sure that Serenwilde as a whole really WANTS to be on equal footing with Glomdoring, however, so I think your idea would just be another change that changes nothing.

It's not just about mechanics, obviously.

Shayle, if the mechanics changed, I know I would be in favour of forgiving you guys for being Tainted and enslaving Fae (not that you can really say you do that anymore, but whatever) and all the rest of the stuff you do.

But being pushed in these different directions all the time gets very frustrating.

Obviously the Glomdoring being untainted (or Serenwilde being wyrded) isn't an option because of the way the game is set up, but MAN is it annoying to get pushed into decisions that piss everyone off no matter which way out you try to take.

EDIT: Not to imply that you guys aren't having a hard time with all these changes or whatever, I'm sure it's just as frustrating to think you have Serenwilde agreeing to treat you the same way as you treat them in some respects and then for us to ...not do that, whatever the reasons are.

See, Shiri, the mechanics DID change, from tainted to wyrded, but the PLAYERS decided that the mechanical change to untainted was irrelevant. The fact that Lady Isune was PART of Glomdoring's re-rebirth should have mattered, the fact that DURING that event, the taint was sucked out of the forest completely was SUPPOSED to be the mechanical change that affected the viewpoints of the rest of the basin.

It didn't. I don't think anything would until the players are ready to change their viewpoints. It's pretty damn easy to just ignore mechanical changes if you don't want to change your mind about your beliefs.

And yes, we are just as frustrated as you are.

EDIT: Actually, this has already been argued a billion times over and even some of the Glooms admit you can't reach a definitive conclusion on it OOCly.

Basically, it's ambiguous. We have no good reason to believe you're not Tainted, you have no reason to say you are. The mechanis DIDN'T change in any way that could affect it.

EDIT: Going to bed in a bit, I'll reply in the morning if there's a response to this.

Damn Straight.

My reading of things is that Glomdoring is fully untainted. The Wyrd is no longer taint, it's nothing even like it, it's an entirely new entity - a form of nature that evolved under mutagenic pressure from some nasty toxin. It's not the same kind of forest as Serenwilde's, and if that's your standard for comparison, it's never going to be "normal".

The Great Spirits are "nasty and cruel" because they were once corrupted and changed. I see it as the permanent consequences of one-time exposure to the taint, not as "being tainted" - like burning your hand: the skin will remain scarred, after you've withdrawn it from the fire. And somewhere in the histories of the Elder Gods, there's the suggestion that there was always something dark lurking inside Raven and Night (as inside Viravain), a predisposition, let's say, that came to the forefront after they were tainted.

The undead are also there because they were made by one-time exposure to the taint. Why would they go away or become alive again? They're a bunch of victims, unfortunate people who were twisted horribly in an irreversible way, but remained in service to their forest when there was no one else left to do so. Glomdoring has nothing to do with undeadness otherwise: no one has necromantic powers, no one holds the undead in reverence - quite the contrary. I understand one of the reasons Brennan and Rowena are not held in high respect is that Viravain despises the undead.

In short, I think everything you've asked for (except for the undead being written out of the picture, which is unnecessary) already happened, in the making-of-the-Wyrd event, giving the communes a basis to relate on political terms, as you put it. Except Serenwilde (and Celest) by the sounds of it went, "Nope, still tainted." You can still revise that opinion, you know, though it seems harder now. I categorically don't want to see Glomdoring "cleansed" again, because it would be repetitive and would beg the question, well, what was that whole Wyrd thing in the first place?

Finally, let's not mix up in-character propaganda for out-of-character desire. Of course *Glomdoring,* the IC entity, wants to be accepted as part of Nature, a desirable alternative for the fae, etc..., for political reasons most of all. Some *Glomdoring characters* will genuinely believe that, some will not but want to put forward that image for convenience, and some quite frankly don't care. What *Glomdoring players* want is going to range even more widely.

EDIT: Meh, Shayle said it shorter and better. Serenwilde doesn't want to accept Glomdoring in any form short of Gloriana with bluebirds trilling in the trees. The whole event was dedicated to cleaning up the taint was therefore happily overlooked in favour of continued hatred.

There were many mechanical changes to Glomdoring. It was not a simple change of "find TAINT replace with WYRD"

Just to name a few.. one, Viscanti no longer regen in Glomdoring
two, Blacktalon don't have to do anything to meld a swamp in Glomdoring.
three, Fae are no longer wanted dead.

I agree with Glomdoring here. They were changed, and Serenwilde totally ignored it. It's been pissing me off ever since. Serenwilde is becoming more and more annoying each time I hear someone totally ignore everything that's happened since freaking beta and spit out the same "Oh, they're Tainted, let's totally ignore everything and hate them for that reason alone."

I always thought of Wyrd like white chocolate. It's still chocolate. It's just different.. and not as good. But it's still chocolate.

yeah so that doesn't have alot to do with the topic I've just wanted to say it for a while and finally found an outlet I'm soooo excited.

Er, Elryn, what you descriped is what has already happened, except for the removal of the zombies, which could just be viewed as lingering remnants.

I would rather the wyrd be gone and Glomdoring be as it was before that silly event.