Gods no Guido. It might prompt Visaeris to come back if they did.

I kinda think of the Wyrd as something like the ooze from the TMNT movies, or BASF.

It doesn't make the things you see or use. It makes the things you see or use better.

I'd like to take this time to point out, also, that the Wyrd, unlike the Taint, has never changed a physical being the way Taint changed a physical being. Though I'd like to see what might happen if you imbued a living being with the Wyrd, similar to what you do with the forest.

I think the problem is that Glomdoring characters are obsessed with the word 'Taint', and think Serenwilde is too. The word isn't important, the reality that the word describes is.

The Wyrd is not Taint, that's certain. The Wyrd is still a taint though, in the general meaning of the adjective. It's Not-Normal. No matter how ambiguous the actual effect of this new thing, its still Not-Normal. Now a lot of the purpose of Serenwilde is tied up to 'healing the Basin'. The Taint isn't actually a bad thing, objectively, but we find it bad because its Not-Normal, and we like Normal. We don't want to 'heal' Celest, because as far as we can tell it fits in with Normal nature. We hate them for bringing about Not-Normal things, sure. But we're not opposed on a fundamental level except with their philosophy.

As long as Glomdoring remains Not-Normal, we have to either consider it something to be restored, or abandon our belief in healing things. If Not-Normal is ok in the case of the Wyrd, why not in the case of the Taint too? If the Taint is ok, then our reason for disliking Celest is much less significant.

Not only that, but we have the Fae/our patron/Tree/any other possessable mobile saying how Glomdoring is not any less natural ('healed') than Serenwilde. Basically, our purpose is silly and we should stop trying to fix things that aren't broken.

Glomdoring changed on its view of the fae - rapists/torturers to friends and allies. Glomdoring changed on its view of the natural world - spreading rot and ruin to being all about balance and health. Glomdoring changed on its view of expansion - wanting to cover the world under the power of Mother Night/Crow to just happily tending their own forest. Glomdoring changed on their view of undeath - something to be appreciated as the power of eternal life to something to be generally despised and barely tolerated. They changed on their view of Normal nature, from something weak and pathetic to just different and worthy of respect.

Serenwilde changed too. While Serenwilde once prided itself on its fundamental and unwavering reverence for the fae, they became kidnappers and greedy abusers. While Serenwilde once believed its Great Spirits to be sacred and unquestionable guides to be consulted on every decision, they were shown that in fact those Spirits were just selfish and often ignorant people with their own personal motives above any other concern. While Serenwilde once believed itself to possess dignity and faith, they were shown that neither is important when an opportunity is to be had. In most cases, I think Crow followers would be impressed at how many of his teachings are followed in Serenwilde - false memory, blood thirst, and that one about ignoring all the evidence to believe whatever you want.

We've lost just about every actual belief difference that isn't Wyrd/Not-Wyrd. In every case where 'Nature' or the Fae/Spirits or the wilderness is threatened, Glomdoring is equally interested and capable of protecting them as Serenwilde, if not more so. There is no deep or fundamental concept or existence that Serenwilde now cares about uniquely, other than itself.

Perhaps this is the direction we are being herded towards, survival of Serenwilde at all costs, doing whatever it takes to make sure we have what we want, regardless of any deeper motive. The 'survivalist' model fits with Wyrd perfectly, its a flawless mirror image of the 'Nothing matters but Glomdoring', and it doesn't face the same contradictions and obvious flaws that trying to base ourselves on some deeper commitment does. I know a lot of Serenwilde players would like to see us go down this road, and perhaps that is our answer. But what a shame to see all that epic and deeply spiritual motive lost, to become just another forest council.

That's why I would like to see Glomdoring become unwyrded, or all of Nature become Wyrded. If all other aspects of our relationship aren't supposed to be based around that natural/unnatural conflict, let's remove it! Ambiguity only works if there is some doubt involved, objectively, and clearly its not. Glomdoring isn't what it was in the histories, so let's finish the job and give them the validity they seek IC.

Well, if you did recognize Wyrd as being ok and also the Taint being okay you still should dislike Celest. Remember, the Taint they released was a whole lot different than what the Taint is now.

You already named the aspect of this: False Memory.

Actually, we were told by every Elder Divine that the Serenwilde listened to at all who were active at the time (Lisaera, Isune, Hajamin) that the Wyrd was still Taint. What, are we supposed to say "No, these people say they're not tainted, so we should listen to them and ignore our Divine"?

That's true. So we'd invert the current feelings, which would be kinda amusing. We'd be fine allies with Mag/Glom, but violently opposed to Celest.

Shorlen barely resisted posting on that very topic before, when war was about to break out between New Celest and Serenwilde. "The Light has done more to bring harm to Nature than Magangora could if they spent a thousand years trying," I believe was what he would say.

Doublepost of DOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOM!

Trying to be logical and saying that we are too preoccupied with the word taint and it shouldn't be that important is logical..but not going to happen. Taint has been transformed from just you know..changing something to The Taint. That bad thing that corrupts all.

And so while maybe we (And by we I mean not only the forests, but Celest and Mag too) are obsessed with the word taint, there isn't a way around that.

I think that if when the wyrd came in, it prettied up the Glomdoring and we had bluejays and healthy deer, no one would have had a problem with the wyrd. I've found that a lot of people associate the wyrd with the taint because it didn't particularly change anything superficial. Trees still get up and wack you in the head, the forest is still pretty yuck. So obviously Wyrd = Taint, when really the wyrd has nothing at all to do with that kind of stuff.



It's perfectly logical for Serenwilde to want to cure Glomdoring. Whether or not there's anything to cure is up to interpretation, for sure, but that doesn't mean Serenwilde can't still want that return to normalcy back when both forests had the whole BFF necklace thing going on.




Or maybe it's all a conspiracy, and when you least expect it we are going to slaughter the fae and all that bad stuff.



I really don't think Glomdoring being unwyrded or Serenwilde being wyrded would solve anything at all. What do you mean by Glomdoring getting unwyrded? Like just having the wyrdling suck it up and fly away?
Or do you mean having the ick (twisted trees, giant wasps and beetles of dooom) turned into simply dark things..like trees that don't move, or really mean bumblebees?

What do -you- want to see if Glomdoring were to get unwyrded? Because to me..if Glomdoring got unwyrded we'd still do everything exactly the same. Sure the wyrd would be gone..but if Viravain was fine with it, well okay.

Also, I think if Serenwilde were to get wyrded many of their members would implode in a fiery hellstorm of 'Does Not Compute'

Also I'm pretty content with where Glomdoring is at. It's not as if I pine for the acceptance of Serenwilde or anything

I don't understand why Glomdoring players and leaders are trying to act so nice and humane towards the Fae. If you greet any of the avatars of Night they say things like, "Trick the Fae into coming to us, so that we may enslave them for Mother Night! All shall fall under her terrible rule! *cackle*".

One thing that always bothered me was the description of the Twilight Trees. If the wyrd is so good for nature, why are the trees there literally screaming in agony? When someone asks if the Wyrd is really that bad for Nature, Shorlen always tells them to go to the Etherglom archway and look through it.

I mean the forest would survey as 'dark woods' or 'swampforest' or something. The descriptions would subtly change so there's no actual pain inflicted on the forest (like the Ravenwood cursed to bleed for eternity, though I think that already was changed), the creatures could stay the same, but they would just be animals.


I want to see our beliefs stop being voided. If Glomdoring is not wyrded, then the Fae saying, "hey, we love Glomdoring more than we like you!" doesn't actually cause the fabric of our society to unravel. They're not switching support from the nature commune to the counter-nature commune, they're just leaning towards one of the two nature communes.

I think it would also encourage Glomdoring to start thinking about their beliefs other than that in Viravain's Wyrd. Perhaps they wouldn't be so eager to duplicate Serenwilde's outlook when they don't have the obvious difference of rotting, mutated forest to fall back on.

Isn't the wyrd Natures way of dealing with the taint? Like, evolution sped up 100000x faster - something that would happen if plants adapted to the wyrd? Which A) would make it natural, givent he circumstances, and would make it a nature commune.

While that's an interesting idea, I can't think of any supporting evidence.

In some views I've heard claimed, yes. In others (Tsuki's included), no.


Psh, don't say that. Next you know, it'll be changed so the trees are sturdy and strong, then we'll have to say ours are still better because they're "pretty" or something.

As the game's about conflict between the areas, it often confuses me why people seem to get so upset that we focus on areas that -- regardless of cosmetic/other changes -- do still conflict. There may be ways we can work together if needed, but in general, no (when Kethuru threatened the Basin, everyone generally worked together to repell that threat ... but that doesn't mean everything else of conflict/disagreement/competition was erased or didn't matter).

Tsuki views Night/Glom's interaction with the fae in a similar way as a cult approaching her friends. They might be acting nice on the surface and influencing her friends to view them favourably, but she doesn't trust the cult to have her friends' best interests in mind (ie., "you will be saved if you give us all your money and possessions, and then join in the release of your then-pure spirit from its physical shell in this horrible fleshy world through our suicide pacts!") ... hence she opposes it. When she heard that we heard from somewhere authoritative (unfortunately wasn't present for it) that even pre-Tainting the fae suffered to an extent with Night, it didn't matter because back then Night was unarguably part of Nature without any other influences on her and could be trusted to have the best interests of the fae in mind. In that case, the suffering would be equated to putting someone through drug rehab and withdraw, grueling physical exercise/conditioning, or unmedicated life-saving surgery.

Wyrd is Kudzu, why is this so complicated?

A vine that kills other plants when it expands?

Edit: Sure, whatever. Use that analogy if it works for you. American ecosystem = Nature pre-Taint, Kudzu vine = Wyrd. I don't see how that changes any of what I've said. The problems are inherent in the normal, not-normal natures.

Kudzu is a normal plant. It grows naturally.

Some people prefer the look of Kudzu in thier area, some people don't.

Some people like rose bushes, some people like lawns. Some people like brick pavilions.

This is the single best post I've ever read to truly sum up the situation. I quoted my favorite paragraph. Good job.