..and isn't it a member nation of the UN.

Firstly I want to state I understand, respect, and support Israel's right to exist. ....But.... come on.... don't go saying 'in self defence' when you go bombing another sovereign nation's city/(s), airport, power stations, and blockade their port. I am disgusted at the UN impotence. What does world leaders do? Blame terrorists of course, and while they're at it, point fingers at Syria and Iran for the fun of it. They are obviously evil. *roll eyes* I am heart broken at UN being a paper tiger. The US invasion of Iraq. Now this. Israel has all the justification to be frustrated but .... come on... Lebanon is a sovereign nation and a member nation of the UN.

I apologize if by posting this I offend. It is not my nature. But this has me disgusted. And I know how this will be written down in the end.... *roll eyes, sighs and mutters*

in 2000, when Israel withdrew from Lebanon, part of the agreement was that the Lebonese government would completely disarm Hezbulah. They havn't done that, and Hezbulah attacked Israel for no reason.

Israel is therefore bombing anything that Hezbulah might use to either A. Continue its assuault against Israel, or B. to smuggle the Kidnapped soldiers out of Lebanon.

Based on the UN monitored disengagement agreement that Israel made with Lebanon, the fact that Lebanon is not held as responcible as it should be is a leniancy on Israel's part. Hezbalah should not even exist as anything but a political party right now.

The UN being a paper tiger is why Hezbulah is even bombing Israel in the first place.

Another point I just heard on the news.

Israel is asking that the Lebonese army deploy itself on the southern Border of Lebanon to stop Hezbulah from attacking Israel, and if they do so, Israel will stop bombing Lebenanon. So far, the Lebanon government is refusing to do so.

So what exactly do you think Israel is suppose to do to defend itself?

Bullshit. I'm sorry, you can't defend Israel on this point. They lose eight people and a few buildings to rocket attacks, and promptly bomb Lebanon's infrastructure to pieces, killing twenty-eight people. And most of those bombing attacks don't even hit the shi'ite Hezballah strongholds.

If Israel wants to defend itself, it can either declare war or stick within the borders of its own territory. And not it's pathetic we-want-this-so-we'll-take-it borders, it's actual borders.

EDIT: Seriously, on the kidnappings right before this; Israel doesn't think it can release WOMEN AND CHILDREN to win the release of two SOLDIERS?

I have now long lost patience with Israel's ability to control it's crazed, militant hardliners.

Israel is freaking crazy. I understand that their soldiers have been kidnapped, but it is TWO goddamned people. A measured response is one thing, but sending your whole damned army to wreck another nation's infrastructure is insane. And didn't they just get done doing the same thing to some other country? Their army gets a hell of a lot of work.

Western media tends to focus on the Israeli deaths, so I'd like you to take a look at this.

Let me get this straight. You think kidnapping someone from another country, and then demanding that 1,000 people who have been arrested for attempting to kill civilians be exchanged for those 2 people is reasonable?

Israel has traded prisoners for kidnapped soldiers atleast 4 times now, all it has done so far, is increase the amount of Israelis attacked by rockets and threatened to be kidnapped.



Let me ask you this. Lebenon promised to demilitarize Hezbalah. They didn't. Instead, Hezbalah attacked Israel, went across the border, Killed 8 and kidnapped 2 soldiers. Lebanon's responce is.. It wasn't us, we had nothing to do with it.

BS Lebanon was suppose to remove Hezbalah's ability to do any military action, and was suppose to put its soldiers on the border to prevent any attacks. Instead, they just sat there and watched while Hezbalah aquired 10,000 rockets, all *aimed at Israel's cities.

What are you suppose to do?

And what the hell is a "measured" responce?

They should go in and kidnapp some Hezbalah people? What the hell is that going to do?

Nobody seems to care that these so called "soverign governments" allow people to live in thier country and send rockets into towns and cities forcing people to sleep in bomb shelters. And then they cry fowl when Israel tries to stop the rockets.

And what the hell is a "measured" responce?

They should go in and kidnapp some Hezbalah people? What the hell is that going to do?

Nobody seems to care that these so called "soverign governments" allow people to live in thier country and send rockets into towns and cities forcing people to sleep in bomb shelters. And then they cry fowl when Israel tries to stop the rockets.

*Correction, Israel fully pulled out of every inch of Lebanon, according to the UN, in 2005.

didn't take that long for them to find another reason to attack Israel. *Ok second correction, some say 2005, some say 2000.

Can't get any facts on the internet anymore.

*edit 3. Allrighty.. Israel Withdrew in 2000, and in 2005, Lebanon agreed to dismantle the military wing of Hezbalah. Which they still refuse to do.

They cry foul because Israel grossly overresponds. The current death toll in Lebanon is 200. Israel has only lost, what, eighteen?

Odd, Fox news (you know, western media) said that over 200 lebanonese have died, not 130.

And I just saw an interview on MSNBC, (again, I -think- that might be western media, you tell me) just had an interview with a Lebonses woman who is hiding out in a bomb shelter in her Mountain home with 3 other families, which she fled to, when Israel dropped leaflets saying to leave the area.




Yes, lets blame Israel for having a security warning system and bomb shelters.. Damn those Israelis, More need to die!!!

There have been over 800 rockets and 3 missles launched into Israel.

Oh, Also, lets blame israel for over 500,000 people packing up everything in a matter of hours and driving 50 miles south of the border, and being taken in by various families. It must be Israel's fault that the Lebanonese government doesn't do the same for thier civilians.

If Israel wasn't so damn twitchy, Lebanon wouldn't need to.

The longer they do this, the more they're shoring up their opposition, because Hezbullah is giving aid in the damaged areas. The more Israel lashes out like this, the more enemies they're making for themselves.

Oh yes, so damn twitchy.

Lets say your next door neighbor told you, that he wants to kill you and your entire family. Then he comes over and hacks your leg off. Then he says, Don't arrest me, I only hacked your leg off, and if you arrest me, I'll have my entire family move into the area and then I'll really kill you! Be thankfull I only hacked your leg off.

Whats the measured responce here? Buy another guard dog and hope he doesn't have any doggy treats? Or would it be appropriate to, you know , arrest the bastard?

The measured response, ignoring your pathetic, slanted analogies, is to put pressure on the Lebanese government the way everyone else does it; sanctions, diplomatic negotiations. Not bombing campaigns.

The disturbing part is the logic inherent in Israel's response. Oh, there's terrorists in Lebanon! Let's bomb Lebanon! Hey, look, there's some in France, and the Netherlands! Let's bomb them, too! Oh, look! There's a mosque in Chicago! Sic em, boys!

Ok, you are clearly ignorant of the situation. So I'll just stop discussing it.

But just so you know, Lebanon does not recognize Israel and the two countries don't do any trade with eachother.

Israel, since it is not given the status of being part of the Middle East in the UN, can not propose sanctions, and has only America to ever suggest anything in thier favour.

Again, to this day, the Lebonese government REFUSES to disarm Hezbulah. Heck, Hezbalah is part of the Lebonses Government. I'm not sure how this is any different than the Taliban supporting Al'Qaeda in Afganistan. Or how this is different than Hamas attacking southern Israel.


Lastly, if anything, Israel is doing Iran a favour by using so much force. Because the whole attack only happened because Iran wanted to remove focus from them refusing the agreement about not building nuclear weapons.

http://action.one.org/dia/organizationsONE...ter+information

help save some lives if your American.

You are clearly ignorant of the situation. I'll just stop trying to break you out of your little box.

I looked up some things, and found something I was ignorant about.

Israel is now a temporary member of Western Europe in the UN. So they have some say in some things now.

http://www.israel-un.org/israel_un/3rd2003.htm


Looking at a map, I'm not quite sure how West and how Europe Israel is, but whatever.

I can imagine a high tension eventually even leading to war if, let's say France, would support an army of terrorists which would repeatedly strike in other European countries and declare it wants to destroy them.

This comes from a member of the Lebonese Government.



Out of curiosity, do you read that transcript as them being infavour of that logic, or thikning the logic is naive?

If an American is kidnapped, we don't bomb the hell out of their country. (We do that before, actually, but that's a tangent).

Israel seems to have two states: Tense, and crazy berserker. It's like poking a rabid dog with a stick.

What's sad is that I normally back Israel; if a supporter feels this way, it's no wonder people who hate them are shooting rockets at them.

Well.
I'm an Israeli, recently discharged from the IDF after three years of service as a soldier in a HAWK SAM battery. I'm very supportive of our actions in this case, but don't wish to take it up here, because things just tend to turn out nastily.

So, if anyone wishes to calmly discuss this, you can PM me, and we'll arrange some manner of discussion.

At least I can't be blamed on not knowing enough, can I?

Take care.