Damn. This game has been MASSIVELY changing since the teleport needing power change (at least that's when I first started to really feel it). Small tweaks don't exist, just ludicrous extremes.

Estarra, I love you for being open to change, but when we whine and complain, we don't ever want such a massive shift.

Re: various people panicking ...
I think that's the idea of having a summit. Faethorn's been changed and had things happening in the past without imput (other than frantic forum complaints) or discussion beforehand. This time, we're presumably getting the opportunity to discuss things and perhaps the results will rectify the worser effects of past changes.

Yes, I'm generally an optimist.

Tsuki, I doubt everyone stood in the summit on the Sea Quest and said "Do all this AND make it have no purpose." So honestly, I really feel like Estarra is taking every suggestion given to her and imping them all - at least, the feasible ones.

So, you weren't present and are making assumptions of what was and was not said that may or may not have had an effect on the changes.

Now I really wish someone would have posted that Summit and maybe all of this nonsense could have been avoided before it happened.

They certainly didn't. I don't remember anyone saying that, actually.

Then what the hell was the point of the summit if Estarra didn't actually care what we thought or wanted?

I can actually answer that one.

Much like the envoys, while the admin may ask for player input, game design is not a democratic process. They might change their mind if they hear something novel, but more likely, they're looking for the tweaks that would make a substantial change tolerable for us.

If I can make it to the summit on Faethorn, this is what I will propose:

I would like the battle of faethorn to occur every four OOC days and last four OOC hours, with the time slightly randomized. The battle should require player effort including fighting and defending territory for their side to win. It should end with a clear winner after the four hours in the same way villages end with a clear winner.

Does anyone like this idea, and/or have anything to add to it?

I'm not entirely sure. People said they wanted changes to the quests, and many of the changes that were implemented were part of what people suggested or exactly what people suggested, so they were listening... but no one suggested removing the effect entirely that I can remember.

But they don't tell us the substantial change ahead of time, so how can we give input as to what we want or don't want regarding that change?

Read between the lines. Faethorn may be made non-competitive in the near future.

Good, finally a solid reason to quit this children's game and get a life

I really don't see why Estarra & co. got the notion that quest conflict is evvillll and should be basically removed as a serious factor in inter-city conflict. Speaking from a commune point of view, I'd say if anything we need MORE coded encouragement/reasons to bicker, not less. Outside of Faethorn and village influencing, all we have is raiding each other at random for no real reason and with no real results. And we all know how thrilling THAT is. Plus, reducing the Faethorn quest's impact to the point where no one has a reason to care basically makes almost the entire ethereal plane a waste of hard disk space (except for the avatars/aspects/etc). That would be very sad.

So yeah, maybe there are some alterations that could be made, but I am completely against the idea of phasing quest conflict out of the game. If you had some super new form of inter-commune conflict to implement, ie something to emphasize as you deemphasize quests, I'd say ok, let's give it a shot and see if this works better. But you haven't indicated that such a new thing exists yet. As has been said: if what is going to replace the Faethorn quest is nothing, then leave us the quest for goodness' sake. I mean, even if you're now intending to eventually brainstorm and develop cool stuff to replace the quest conflict thing, you have said before that you are already swamped with things to do, plus a major coder just left. I am doubtful that we'd see a new thing as major as a new form of inter-city conflict go from brainstorming to finished code any time within the next year or more. I've seen too many examples of things that were removed because they needed fixing and the coders had great ideas for them, but the new versions never seemed to materialize. *cough*achaeanwarsystem*cough*

So unless you have something definitely on the verge of readiness to replace the quests as a staple of city and commune conflicts, I say leave them in place till you do. There's nothing more boring than having your only conflict be a random enemy running into your territory and being chased out.

*annoyed cuz she can't be at the summit*

All the changes implemented were discussed and, for the most part, supported at the summit, with the exception of the removal of the quest's effect... though that was likely a result of several things said. I'm willing to wait and see how things turn out.

Yes!
I haven't been in-game for a while, but I love ALL the changes I've read here regarding this.
ESPECIALLY that it no longer effects spike/suplicant gathering.

This is the key change that needed to be made.
Previously these quests were effectively 'griefing' quests in that one section of the player base higher-ranking players could disable a section of the game for lower-mid ranked players just trying to gain levels. This was bad, and under no circumstances should be restored.

IF there is any need to re-introduce penalties for not doing the quest, make it just target the section of the player-base capable and interested in doing the quest, not near-novices trying to make their way in the game.

And to everyone that thinks this conflict should be brought back: shame!

Mrh. Summit's before I wake up. Someone be there and say things I would say please!

.....

say to norns I talked to Nejii. He pretty much said that he's like to see all the avatars located at the earth gateway. Oh, and make them die in one hit.

While I'm not on every hour of the day, I think I may assume that one essential, even critical tool is being ignored by the administration in guaging player desires.

World-wide referendums exist and happen in every other game in order to guage player satisfaction with things. Why are they not used here? Not everyone goes to a summit, not everyone reads the forums, but a large majority log in once every two days at least.

I really feel like the production of the game has turned to a method closely resembling the saying "cutting off your nose to spite your face."