I think Shamarah's point is that the current setup of declaration and suspect is preventing any true "war' efforts.

I'm sure there is some middle ground. His raids wouldn't be "pointless" if he had the ability to stick around and fight without ending up peaced by the Avenger for the next two days.

I see his point, but the current system also allows for people who don't actually want constant conflict and war inside their own territories. It seems reasonably balanced to me.

What might be nice is some way of encouraging one big raid and leaving it at that, rather than just walking in and kicking something to see if we're still there every 10 minutes.

But then it becomes too....hmm I don't know the word I'm looking for. I like it as it is, I don't see the problem.

Atleast Celest CAN raid Serenwilde. We have no hope of getting into the city without a bunch of guards smooshing us.

*chuckle* Funny for you to bring this up Sham, you're the out beckoning people out of the seren and trying to get vengence on a group because you're in 'neutral territory' and Avechna thinks that they're jumping you.

Yeah, I'm just grumbling 'cause I keep getting interrupted. Oh well.

Oh I think you're going to find a bunch of Celest/Mag citizens protesting rather loudly about this statement. I hear pretty much constantly how impossible it is to raid the communes, and I do mean constantly.

That wasn't his intention per se, he was apparently reading forums.

If you seriously contemplate raiding another organization, you'll soon realize the futility. I can certainly see Shamarah's point.

If you kill loyals, you're autodeclaring on all citizens and announcing your presence immediately for the canny defender to walk in guards, and risk heavy experience loss without PK protection.

If you kill citizens, they conglutinate and lose neither time nor experience, while you rapidly gain bully status for every death and risk heavy experience loss without PK protection.

I'd definitely say at the moment that raiding the planes is the only real option, but at least it is viable now for all orgs. I'm happy to see how these latest changes play out a bit more before implementing drastic changes to prime combat.

ya well the people who complain to you are idiots then. Seren's spending oodles of power to try and cover just a SMALL portion of our forest with the guards necessary to defend it.

Oh, and that's the part that keeps getting raided anyway. We don't even have the ability to have totems on most of our boarder areas, the areas enemies have been abusing auto decare in.

I agree both sides of it are stupid, not trying to argue with you, just pointing out another bad point to the whole system.

It's good for people who never fight back, even to defend their own home, and that's about it.

We're always getting random people coming in for a raid. I'm not sure about Glomdoring, but Serenwilde has a heap more entrances than Celest or Magnagora. We're also split in two. Granted, we can protect most of our "valuable" locations, but we cannot totally guard every entrance the the forest as cities can.

Perhaps, down the track, Lusternia will need to think about implementing its own war system *ducks and runs for cover before Estarra reads the thread*.

Actually, both Celest and Serenwilde (hell, Glomdoring and even Magnagora too, although the Engine to a lesser extent) are retardedly easy to raid. The problem is that there isn't anything valuable there to kill. Unless we're talking about Cosmic/Ethereal, of course... but they're easy to raid too, with the new change.

Oh, don't get me wrong it's one of the best I've seen in muds I've been in, and I don't have the foggiest about how to make it better.. it's much easier to say what is wrong then how to many it right.

the probelm is solved if you remove the ten suspect limit

Yes. Like I said, do that OR remove the auto-declare for attacking guards/loyals and it'll be fine.

Ethereal still isn't really raidable, since it can't be flooded and therefore we can't break your demesnes.

"Hey Avechna... THEY WERE IN OUR BASE! KILLING OUR DUDES!"



But yeah, wtf is Lusternia supposed to be about? No conflict quests. No war system. All juicy raiding targets are on Prime, but Prime has a "No-PK" flag named Avechna. Conflict is supposed to be kept to the outer planes, where there aren't people to kill or things to do, and where defences are too strong.

Soo..... is this game supposed to be about conflict? Or whining? It seems the only way we can fight is by bending the rules (beckoning out of villages, dying to vengeance other people, etc). So, one must assume the rules are there to prevent war. So....

Umm...

What's this game about again? The site says conflict, but I don't believe it anymore.

Obviously the game is about watching me make the Mother Moonhart Tree talk to scared little novices.

Emo rangers attack, Waah! Waah!

There is NOTHING worth attacking on prime. Here's a list of targets on other planes though:
Elemental: lords. Keep 'em dead and not only you get some gold and NICE karma (1% karma per, like a manifestation), you screw over the enemy's essence production.
Cosmic: angels. Hard to get? Fetch an AETHERSHIP.
Ethereal: like these two, added together.

And even with Avechna, I've seen plenty of conflict in Lusternia. Even when not raiding, I am jumping or being jumped by Celestians 10+ times a day.

Solution for lack of conflict? Create, instead of waiting for some people to have it served for you on a platter.

Shrines are a nice juicy target, apparently, especially if you can cubix out and be an annoying prick about it. And you have to declare to attack a defiler, so it's nice easy "raiding."

Geeze shorlen all you do anymore is bitch and moan on here. Step back for a second its getting old.