I agree Thul, people will not do this, but I nor Tully said people would or will do this, infact most won't, but I do it. At the end of the day its just numbers your hurting and just your numbers being hurt. I am all for protecting my numbers and hurting others numbers as well as allowing them to hurt my numbers and protect thier own. I want others to have as much fun as I am, the Avenger just kills people and the player does little, no fun in that.

just remove the damn 10 suspect limit problem solved instantly!! its a pointless system to annoy everyone!

Okay, here's an idea to make it easier for warriors to battle without repercussion.

VOW TO AVECHNA.

You vow to become an honorable warrior to Avechna. This prevents you from using Karma and Avenger. It also allows you to attack without repercussion anybody else who takes this vow. This does not prevent those who don't take this vow from invoking Avenger/Karma against you if you grief, but it does allow you to fight others who take this vow. This allows wars to go on, and it allows fighters like Narsrim to Fight murphy without either fearing a drawback.

BREAK VOW

You can break your vow to Avechna--if you decide somebody abused their warrior privilages or if you're tired of war. But Avechna Automatically peaces you for 48-72 hours, no escape. Thus, this prevents people from easilly breaking their vows just 'cause they are angry.

This sort of works as a defacto PK flag without being too artificial.

Lusternia's PK system is now a bit of a mess. The combination of the original Avenger, karmic curses, declare, suspect limits and 'invisible' PK rules, such as moving people out of allied territory rules - is obscure and clumsy.

There must be a simple way of amalgamating all of these PK changes to a satisfactory system. Personally, I feel that the original 'basic Avenger' of suspect and vengeance was almost enough. But rather the little extra grip needed coming from player-enforced PK limits, such as giving Champions open defence on their guildmates, than from blunt limits and disproportionate karmic curses.

Edit: Phred, that's the 'Mark' system of other IRE games.

Thats an advantage to Raiding and attacking shrines, isn't it? Isn't that what they are looking for, ways to do war?

I would say destroying all the shrines of the patron is a good way to do war.

Achaea had a similiar "PK flag" system, called I think infamy. Didn't work.

I hated infamy, I became Infamous and constantly hunted after I threw a dead fish corpse at one of my friends.

However his system is a bit better since it's voluntary and easy to stop. Infamy wasn't voluntary and took ridiculous amounts of time to wear off.

Again I like Tully's idea!

No one would vow though since karma blessings are so powerful.

I think he means the vow would only give up karma curses not blessings, right?

I should've specified only Karma Curses, not blessings, would be disallowed for Vow-Takers. The point of the vow is to say "I will fight with honor and I expect to die in the service of my cause"

Anyway, it's just an idea.

Very true.

Not to get off-topic, and I think it was mentioned before... But all of these things are meant to somewhat discourage conflict off prime. Swell idea, now give them something off prime worth raiding. We can't say "go fight off prime" and not have any incentive to do so (and I'm not counting demon lords and supernals, they're so freaking huge right now anyway).

Maybe have an event to recover the plans of Project Crucible and allow people to siphon power from opposing nexii off plane. Either that or just allow people to Starcall Link/Darkcall Link/Cone to siphon power from opposing nexii into theirs. It would be hard to do since defenders can summon guards but would still be kind of fun.

EDIT: Just as an example as a Project Crucible variation Magnagora could have the ability to have Geomancers summon tainted spires while the Nihilists create an energy link between the opposing nexus and the spire. Then power would be siphoned through the spires back to the Megalith of Doom. The ur'Guard could then protect the raiders or just stand around an look badass.

The communes would have the advantage in such of a event since their nexii are better defendable. Because they have less planes to defend, as well as totems plus guards at each. It is a interesting idea though.

Well, you could do different things to Communes since their nexii are trees. I guess that idea was mainly for Celest vs. Magnagora.

In the event of this ever being used, perhaps on Astral and perhaps something of the Communes appearing there? Not the Trees as theyre too far away, but maybe something weird. We already have Wargames spheres.

Just a suggestion, no mobs or pitchforks please.

Phred's idea, which would create a class or caste of fighters, has merits. But it also adds further complication to an already complex system; ideas such as karma were similar, seeming like good ideas at the time but ultimately contributing to the tangle.

Any improvements like this should really go with the removal of some other aspect or the PK system. Or it should be overhauled entirely.

As an aside I wish there were conflict quests that were more for sabotage. Such as maybe having Nihilists cause Demon Lords on Nil to randomly create spawns (like the crappy ones made in the Nihilism skill). Then the Geomancers could weave an illusion (via some kind of quest item or whatever) around the spawn to make it look like a Fae as well as cause it to ask to go to Seren or Glom which could then be taken to Ethereal. Then when the random Seren/Glom comes and brings it back to their Avatar the spawn suddenly loses the illusion and attacks to cause chaos of some sort.

This is a rather bland example but it could be fun to have sneakier conflict than the obvious giant evil Ship roving the Inner Sea spreading chaos and tainted squid. Not too mention there's a chance the sneaky quest wouldn't even work.

I like that, just be funny.

again ill say it...remove the ten suspect limit