I still think the doss power (or whatever it's called) should be for rogues only, so that they have a little something to go on instead of slaving away to get 250 credits for a single powerplex. It's not going to solve the whole issue, but it would probably help a little.

Ive said it before, Ill say it again. No one is innocent. Seren, Celest, Mag, Glom, theyre all at some point or another guilty of creating stupid arguements. Dont like how the org is run? Dont whine and bitch about it, make a subtle move into the areas of power and influence it to what you feel is better. And yes, Im a walking contradiction but Im working on getting better.

Actually that's quite possible.

Possible, but I have yet to see it or close to it.. unless there's an event. Novices aren't included.

Serenwilde protects Serenwilde. Contain the Taint. Contain the Wyrd. Contain the Light. Such are our goals. We do not need to war with them to impede their spread. I don't see where anything needs to be changed about the Serenwilde. According to our history, Serenwilde should hate Celest more than any other org, especially Magnagora. We ignored that for a while because of all the Celenwilders, but that has since passed at long last.

So, let me get this straight. Because more people voiced their opinion by voting than ever before, you think it was unfair? You believe that the vocal minority, the Celenwilders, should have instead held sway, just because they were louder? You think alt abuse was used on a REFERENDUM? I think people have more important things to get permashrubbed over, like rigging ELECTIONS and the like.

So you would rather again the few determine what the many want? So, you aren't angry that not everyone got their way, you're angry that YOU didn't get your way? You think it's fine to rig someone in your favour, but not to rig it in someone else's favour? I'm confused.

Glom attacks us all the time. We're not at war with Glom. Serenwilders go kill demons all the time. We are not at war with Mag. Non-non-aggression does not mean war. A few people attacking isn't an org attacking. Celest has taken the "with us or against us" stance. That is their choice. It does not, however, immediately put them in the right. Them making demands and ultimatums against an org that believes in freedom was just dumb - there's no way we could have agreed to them without forsaking our RP. You can say the war was our fault if you wish, but that doesn't make it true.


And those childish remarks do not even warrent comment.

Shamarah is right about the ally list, it was meant to allow Serenwilders that didn't wish to be engaged in the War to not have to be engaged in the War, it was not ment to hurt anyone. And it mainly was made for those few Serenwilde followers of Celest related gods, though all are welcome to try and join it, though most will not be accepted.

And actually I think novices are allowed to vote in referendums. The commune only takes into account commune rank, not guild rank, and every CR1 can vote.

Makes me wonder if you/Vesar/whoevers idea it was really didn't foresee the consequencesfor anyone on that list.

You didn't think it would bring any harm? You're naming yourself an ally of the organization we're actively at war with, which is plenty on it's own. Then you get to not be touched while you watch your friends and neighbors being slain. That'll really endear you to everyone.

It's one thing not to fight. That's your choice. It's another to actively voice your dissent and screw our morale, but that's fine too. But decided to ally yourself with our enemy, that's going to get you disfavoured or ostracised if Sylphas catches you.

What Serenwilde does with people on that list is not our problem and no one is required to join it, we just wanted an avenue for people that didn't want to be attacked by Celestians. And being on the list does not require you to help Celest at all, it just means we won't attack you unless you attack us.

Fine, nevermind me.

Then most of Serenwilde should be on the list, because 95% of us have only been defending, not raiding back. I've yet to see a counterraid in my time online, although I've heard of one so far. I've only been defending shrines, mainly, and I still get labeled an enemy.

So basically, your list isn't "we won't attack you unless you attack us," it's "we won't attack you if you sit around and watch us attack."

So anyways, yeah. Rogues.

I don't think they should be given more, I think as rogues they are given enough. They have the ability to buy a powerplex jewel, they can link on astral, the teleporting thing, etc. Lusternia is really just...made for people to be in organizations.

Dont you know Sylphas? Everyone, even those who havent been around during raid times are enemied.

Most of the Serenwilde couldn't be on the list, we require a good reason for you to be there and have guidelines to who we allow. And its not my problem your not attacking us back too much, wish you would. Shorlen did just alittle while ago, was quite nice.

And I don't even want to talk about precautionary enemying. Both sides have been doing it equally. I was enemied and I have never attacked a Serenwilder in my life, but the enemying doesn't bother me abit, its war I figured it would happen.

All I want to say is to any Rogue who's made it for a while without a city/commune Kuddos to you. Honestly, being a rogue means being cut off from quite a few things. If you can survive with out power, interaction, guild skills, it means you've basically got an iron will. And thus I tip my hat to you and say "Congratulations." Being a rogue is a lonely life. Being rogue often means being nomadic. Moving from place to place in search of somewhere to sleep, hide, eat.
I understand that Lusternia isn't rogue friendly, but she isn't meant to be rogue friendly. She's based around Organization strife, guild warfar, that sort of thing y'know? But I think, in reality, Lusternia doesn't want to be "OMG! DIE ROGUES," She's just "I'm sorry, but that the way I am" towards rogues. I understand than yes, the gods/admins could change the mechanics and that sort to be nicey nice towards the rogues but all in all I think being a rogue is a real test of will and drive to be a rogue. And if you manage to over come this then By Golly you've done. You've said "Haha! Look at me, I'm a level rogue Lusternia!" Be pride of yourself my friend for this, because there are people out there who praise you for your strong will and drive to be a rogue.

On the topic of rogue's I must say that I don't think they have it all that bad, I would play a rogue in Lusternia, its a difficult thing to do but nothing wrong with a challange. I have played Muds where not being in an Org for too long got you deleted.

I actually would push for us not to attack back. Then when you get tired of gaining nothing from it all, we can be the patient victim while you look like a baby throwing a tantrum when you don't get what you want.

I was just pointing out that your list is anything but "we won't attack you if you don't attack us." If it WERE, most of us could reasonably be included. Don't try to portray yourselves as some sort of victim, only attacking us because we started it. Saying that is a blatant lie. Your list is "don't defend yourself, we won't attack you."

Really? That's a surprise, considering there are several different views in Serenwilde. There's the containment belief.. then the preservation of the Wilde belief.. then the destruction belief.. and it goes on and on. Which one are we following now? Containment? When did this happen? Interesting. Last time I checked, the story was still as constant as when I started the game- the Taint was not of Lusternia and Nature and had to be removed, Glomdoring and Magnagora are Tainted.. cities are bad, Celest and Magnagora are cities. 1+1=... Why would you help that which you wish to contain grow and survive? If you don't want to aide Celest in their efforts, why would you aide Magnagora or Glomdoring? You wish to contain all three of them... Then again, I haven't checked Serenwilde's story in a while.. I'd rather be static than dynamic in my rp.



I never said the word "unfair". Nor did I mention "Celenwilders". Not all who oppose this war are Celenwilders. And see, here is a prime example of the way Lusternia works.. one extreme or the other. Either you're with Serenwilde or you're a Celenwilder. As a matter of fact, Zacc loaths Celest. The only reason he's been hanging out there lately is because he has no where else to go that suites his rp even the slightest.. that, and he wants to get back at those Serens who started the war. If you've been around in Serenwilde for a while, you would know that Zacc openly protested against certain Serens aiding Celest (*cough* Munsrim *cough*).

Tangent aside, I don't know if alts were used. I did find it a bit suspicious, however, that so many people voted in this referendum. I don't think I've ever seen more than 50 non-novice commune members before. Actually, I'm sure I haven't. I know there are, but out of the 555 hours I've played, I've yet to see them on a regular basis.. if at all. I believe that only active characters should be able to vote in referendums and elections. How could someone inactive or not around often be well informed and experienced with the situation that needs voting on? As far as I'm concerned, they're on par with novices out of the woodworks.

It is a bit irksome, also, that a single command string can influence things to that extent... when there are those who are trying to voice their opinions like in a real election or debate. I think that's my problem with the voting system- it doesn't have enough features to help make things a bit more interesting.. Heck, might as well say the whole government system. It's not dynamic enough..

Oh well, pointless argument. There's no way to patch it. I give up on that topic. You win.



As I've said, gaining power and influence in an org is off. Sometimes, it is unfair to those who have done what they were supposed to do to go up in the ranks. They made their contributions and they have been around for a while. It's sad when high ranking members have no voice what-so-ever in the org. And, by the way, I'm not angry that I didn't get my way. I'm upset that a handful of people so easily influenced the politics of one org. The idea that I would like for the voting system, is to help balance out the influence of those who hold power and experience and those who don't. Can you honestly say that some CR1 that's been around for a few weeks knows what's best for the org and yet a CR4-5 that's been around much longer doesn't? Adding weighting to the votes of ranked members will help it to balance out a bit more.. unless, of course, there's some overly large conspiracy where only certain people are getting the CFs. Not everyone can hold a leadership position within an org, and it's sad that people can bypass the meaning of CRs by obtaining a position of leadership.



There were more attacking Celestia and Water than there were attacking Earth and Nil. The reason for no tensions between Magnagora is clear.. I don't think I need to spell it out. Not only did Serenwilde allow its members to attack Celest's territories, it also welcomed two people who are known for their attacks on Celestia. This is on par with Celest electing Shamarah as Duke and Serenwilde turning around and making ultimatums to Celest. If Serenwilde believed in freedom, then why do they impose tradebans on their more peaceful members? To stop them from aiding the enemy? Well, there wouldn't be an enemy if pride didn't get in the way. Serenwilde got its panties in a bunch when Celest legalized killing fae.. Did Celest go to war over that? Nope. Serenwilde legalized slaying angels. Celest responded by stating that the terms for peace or aggression were reciprocal. Is Serenwilde just one big hypocrit? Sure seems like it. Remember the oath with Glomdoring? Yeah, I'm sure we don't need to bring that one back from the grave... Perhaps I was wrong.. Serenwilde is static afterall.. static in the way that it goes back on everything it does.



And yet it didn't stop you from commenting, did it..



Well, as Shorlen stated, the majority voted. They didn't vote for war, but they did vote to not ban the killing of angels. I see it this way, if they voted for the war, then they can fight it on their own. I voted (actually, I don't think I logged in during that referendum as I was on vacation) against it.. I see no reason why I, or anyone who voted against the war, should have to bother with those who made their own decisions. I'm not here to clean up their mess.

It's not ally status.. it's "non-combatant" status. This means that if I were to just happen to be sitting around in Serenwilde or somewhere else, I would not be jumped/attacked by Celestians because I have no aggressions against them and I do not wish to fight them. This does not brand me as their ally because I am not helping them or support their efforts. I simply wish to be left out of the combat, hence the "non" part.