Someone has me enemied.

Its been a clan since long before you came here...

First off: Not whining. If I was, I'd expect a decent cheese to go along with it.
Second: What makes Lusternia Lusternia is the idea of "one extreme or the other". It's quite clear.. Glomdoring vs Serenwilde. Celest vs Magnagora. Nil vs Celestia. Moon vs Night. Crow vs Hart. Right.. I don't like the way Serenwilde is at the moment.. let me join Glomdoring to patch that up. *buzz* Wrong answer. To do that means not being able to move back to the original. Unfortunately, the circumstances are, well, one extreme or the other.

A rogue can survive, despite the useless skillsets. It's very true. The issue arises when certain skills require certain power and make little sense. Why in Nil can I not rebirth an animal and yet I can summon the powers of the animal kingdom to create a bone fetish.. I can guard the plantlife and summon a cudgel.. but I can't use fury or regrowth or forestcast..

I really wish that certain skillsets disappeared the moment you left a certain organization: Druidry, Wicca, Stag/Moon/Night/Crow, Aquamancy, Geomancy, Sacraments, Necromancy. All of them are extremely organization-dependent, and since you can't switch organizations without losing them... I don't see why you wouldn't lose them when in no organization. And it's very poor RP to have people with Moondancer/Hartstone/Ebonguard/Blacktalon skills running around in cities, or Nihilist/Celestine/Aquamancer/Geomancer skills running around in communes. The warriors are usually a little more versatile, but totem/ritual skills are the same.

I think its a huge bonus rogues get that they can keep most of the skills in those skillsets, rather than all of them being disabled or lost.

Edit: Also... what on earth is all the war talk about? I wish more of it was happening when I was in-game, there's not enough excitement!

I disagree here, only because Nature is made up of all the elements.

Eh, without debating exactly how each org cottons on to these secret knowledges... you know what I mean.

I disagree that having city skills in a forest commune is poor roleplay.

Well said.




Also well said.

....Thats the point

Anti-rogue = good. I'm sick of "lone wolves" who want to stay all by theirselves, because most of the times they're doing it because they either:
-want to do anything they want (read: act like a Chaotic Stupid character)
-think being a lone wolf is "uber cool *orgasm*"

In Achaea it was crappy before the autoclass, because your powers were limited by your guild, not city. Too many loops to jump through, and... you know the drill. Here, you don't have to be in a guild if its RP style doesn't suit you. But the cities/communes have such flexible RP that you can still stay in one, even if you didn't like your original guild. Hell, Exarius was a member of Serenwilde for ages, until kicked out for forming the Newleaf.

But if you dislike the leadership's decision, for example because they set up to war, preventing you from cuddling to city enemies or selling them wares... well, sucks to be you!

Oh. The whole reason I wanted to post.


R-O-G-U-E.


Rouge is French for red, or a very old-fashioned word for blusher, basically. Please, stop making me cry when you all write it without even realising.

Shut up, I havent gotten a lot of sleep lately

Yes, and I'm sick of the overly zealous ones who insist on the all or nothing mindset when it comes to orgs. I'm also sick of those who are too concerned with keeping everything under their control. There really is no reason why someone should not be allowed to leave an org and not keep the skills they learned. Afterall, that org did teach those skills to that person. What, do they brainwash them once they type in QUIT ? Uh.. no. Don't want people quitting an org and keeping the skills they learned? Then don't try to impose rp situations upon them that they can not control. Instead of driving people away and then whining about them quitting and keeping the skills, why not try to consider others first?

The issue is geared more towards the dramatic differences between the orgs (cities and communes).

It seems to me that there are just as many whining about rogues as there are whining about rogues being treated unfairly. Anti-rogues whine about rogues needing to lose skills and resources. Pro-rogues whine about needing skills and resources. Anti-rogues want to keep skills all to themselves. Pro-rogues want to make diversity and not a strict totalitarian, or similar, style government within an org.

To force rogues to forget skills would be a cheap way of evading rp.. It's using mechanics to please a crowd and to force others to change their roleplay while not touching the crowd that's whining. I see absolutely no reason why someone should not be allowed to learn the ways of one org and then run to another. It's perfectly within rp boundaries. I join a commune, I learn druidry, I decide that I'm not content with the way the commune is behaving and refuse to be suppressed by it, I leave and take my skills with me.. What in there forces me to forget those skills? Absolutely nada.


Edit: Actually, I stand corrected. The AB file for cudgel was wrong. It doesn't take "any" type of power to summon one. So.. I guess rogue druids don't have much of a chance unless they influence. Using a cudgel is out. I'm going to take a guess and assume that fetishes also require a different power source than what the AB files say...

Life for everybody would be more interesting if everyone who had a problem with a city stayed in it instead of leaving.

It would.. But then there are the instances when you're threatened to be removed if you don't conform as they want you to. It's kind of like quitting/retiring from a job before they can fire you.

Someone helped kick me out of Glomdoring. I like you as a player, but had to stick to my role as a character.

I just think that Tracking should be fully available to rogues. Its stupid that its not. The rest of the rogues should know what they're getting into.

And Zacc, the argument that "Well, we know the skills! Why can't we use them!" its because you're no longer linked to the Nexus. Lusternia has the perfect IC reason why you can't use your skills, and that's why they don't force you to forget them.

But yeah, Trackers... it just doesn't make sense for their animal to stay loyal, but start disobeying advanced commands.

Points:
1) If you abandon the guild devoted to the Supernals of Celestia, and then abandon the city that is based off their teachings, why should you be able to summon an Angel from them? Most skills make sense for the same reasoning altered a little (As said before, why can you summon an "ethereal forest" if you no longer are even linked with the ethereal plane?).
2) I guess we should eliminate all conflict... because with every conflict situation, there will be some people who dont agree with it. And we don't want to force them into something they don't agree with, do we?
2) Oh yeah, and you forget that even if you don't agree with it, you were still in the minority for that referendum. Tough Luck
3) Yes, the cities/communes are dramaticly different. Thats part of the appeal of the game. Next?
4) I'm pro-Rogue, yet anti rogues getting skills. Part of being a rogue is being treated unfairly. You just ned to accept that - just cause you don't like it wont make hte game change for you.
5) Yeah, this is a buisness - they want to please as many people as they can.
6) Ok - you learn druidry. Ok - the commune gives you a ton of powers! Woo! Now, you don't need the commune? Well, then you don't need the communes gifts, either. Seeyah.
7) Ok, the ab file is wrong, that sucks. Bummer, but nothing I can do about that. I think they are supposed to say Commune power, rather than any power... but thats just my guess.

The argument "I learn something, I leave, why should I suddenly forget it" doesn't fly. Say I learn how to dreamweave, then decide I'll be a warrior - I suddenly forget all that I've learned... just because I'm no longer a druid. Say I change organizations, I have no choice but to completely forget every shred of the skills I've spent years mastering. I find that it often makes more sense to look at skills less as 'practicing something until you know how to do it' and more as 'alignment with a certain nexus of power, or spiritual forces, opening one's mind to certain powers and magics'.

I'm not driving away anyone, nor trying to impose any RP. I don't even interact with any rogues in game, let alone demand anything from them. I haven't asked anyone to leave Serenwilde, and I didn't even vote for or against the war. If you want to play a Seren with different views to the majority, what's stopping you? No-one gets ostracized for disagreeing, or for voicing their opinion respectfully. No-one is ostracized for trying to argue for a different approach to things.

I'm also not whining this time. I was pointing out how lucky rogues have it, even though they might not realize. If it were up to me it would be different, that's for sure. I don't really mind the rogues we have in game now... I'm pretty sure we only have very few that actually keep their skills and then go to another organization.



Again, I'm not anti-rogue. If you want to be a character that has loyalty to nothing but themselves or their own agenda, go for it. If you want to be loyal to an idea that isn't covered in any of the four organizations... go for it. (If you want to bring diversity to an organization - don't go rogue, obviously.)

What I don't like is those outside an organization having organizational skills. Why should an army of Glomdoring fighting against Serenwilde have characters that can call upon ancestor spirits or wear the mantle of Stag? Why should an army of Magnagorans be blessed by benedictions and the support of angels aiding the fight against the Supernals?

I do want to keep all the skills within the places they are supposed to be, because that encourages better RP. The Hartstone Druids are the only ones who know enough (at this point) to work with the forests and call the wilderness to aid them - that guild has responsibility for using those skills wisely and for taking their place in the commune. I really wish it wasn't anyone that's ever been Hartstone has those skills, whether they put them to work for Serenwilde, Glomdoring, Magnagora or even Celest. The same goes for any of the mystical guilds.


I don't really understand this. You're forced to forget skills when you change guilds. Is that a cheap way of evading RP? I'm not sure how Nihilists wielding the natural rites of ecology in soothing and protecting the forests would be a great RP opportunity. Maybe I'm missing something.

It's a loophole, essentially. As long as I don't choose a place in the new organization I join, I don't have to lose my skills. As I said above, every other example of changing guilds demonstrates that its not a matter of just 'forgetting' everything. Do you really want to see the situation where every org has every guild included in it? Magnagorans calling ethereal forest, Celestians tainting, Glomdoringers using Stag skills, Serenwilders calling demons?

So, in conclusion... please don't interpret my opinions as forcing anything, nor as complaining about the rogues we have. I stand by what I think - that in my view, things are better when belonging to an organization means as much as it can, but I'm not trying to force that on anyone else. I know we have a lot of good rogues in Lusternia, and I think that adds to the continuing story as long as they remain apart from all four organizations.

Ummm do note that some skills like summoning of angels need you to be linked to an org with a specific pool power. So an ex Celestine CANNOT summon angels, ress, sacrifice if he or she is not part of Celest anymore despite having the skills.