To be entirely honest, this post is a culmination of raw anger, disbelief, and utter frustration – but I still have faith in the powers that be! If you are a member of the administration reading this, please do not take this personally – but I feel a “shout out” about this problem is really my last method to get it addressed. I have attempted both as a Moondancer and an Envoy to address this ongoing problem. I specifically recall this being in 2 envoy reports; speaking to other envoys about it; and just recently speaking to Tuek, the current Moondancer Envoy, concerning it.

Nothing has changed (for a variety of reasons I will not discuss) – which I find unacceptable given the situation. I realize there has always been some stigma attached by various persons concerning Moondancers, but the inability of those persons (mainly envoys) to look objectively has finally gotten on my last nerve. Recently, two classes face this exact same problem, Nihilists and Celestines, as we all share something in common:

100% magic type damage attacks are ridiculously broken *breathes in*

Simply put, Lusternia has TOO MANY resistances to magic, which consists of a relatively low amount of attacks (nature curse, moonburst, radiance, guardian symbols, violet, 50% of cosmic fire). Magic Resistance is the single most common resistance any race in Lusternia has (dwarf, furrikin, krokani, orclach, igasho, lucidian). EVERY SINGLE PERSON has access to the Magic skillset – an entire skillset that drastically reduces magic damage. EVERY SINGLE PERSON has access to proofs on robes, which reduces magic damage by 10%. I’ve heard splendor robes offer 20% (not confirmed).

Various defenses reduce magic damage: resistance, draconis, aura, drawdown, nightkiss, magic resistance (benediction/maiden), biofeedback, garb, halo, wielding a symbol (I think), ecology charm, dragon sphere (up to as much as 20% by itself), etc. etc. etc. Worst of all, these all STACK together. They then stack with a truefavor and other additional defenses like that.

In the end, magic damage can be reduced to nearly nothing. I recall times when I’ve done under 150 damage to Nejii (Furrikin Moondancer, inept Magic skillset) with a -22- intelligence moonburst. However, since people don’t quite understand what that means, I’m going to post various examples that highlight how utterly pathetic and worthless 100% magic attacks are using myself as an example.

Do note that even with these resistances, I lack the possible 1-3 levels of resistance available to some races.








Note that Tuek does MORE damage to me with a very crappy two-handed axe (a good damage axe being something like 340-360 base damage) at 17 strength than Asmodea does with a 17 intelligence moonburst. I have 73/63 splendor robes.

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I will be posting more logs tomorrow, but I think this should be enough to get things started. More or less, I think it is fairly obvious that it is in no shape or form feasible to kill someone who can heal well when your attack does between 281-401 damage. Sparkleberry alone cures more health for me that any person with whom I’ve tested can deal out in a single moonburst. That’s pretty sad considering that boulderblast, geo staff, hailstorm, aqua staff, mindblast, cudgel, thorn lash, nearly every warrior even those with poor strength, cosmic fire (which while 50% magic is also 50% fire), etc. does significantly more damage (which I will back this up with logs later) than a 17 intelligence moonburst. And as I said earlier, I really don’t have as much magic resistance as others!

As a suggestion, I think –no- attack should be 100% magic given how common magic resistances are. It is difficult to fix otherwise because so many attacks share a “magic source” while very few have an actual “magic damage type.” Moonburst could be made 50% fire, Celestine Symbol could be 50% cold, Nihilist symbol could be 50% poison, Violet should be 100% psychic (as Urazial as a furrikin dreamweaver with splendor robes was able to tank 20+ violets in a row).

I’m not asking that moonburst, symbol, or violet be the strongest attacks in Lusternia – but I am asking they be viable and useful.

As I said to Tuek, there are a lot of other factors to physical weapons being discussed here. If you're going to post logs of physical weapons in an attempt to compare, do it *over a period of time*. This means you're counting miss rate, parry rate, stance rate, and so on. If you're still getting more damage over time from an axe than from a moonburst, then there's *definitely* an issue, but I'm not convinced by half-arsed logs. Do full tests please. Thank you!

Edit: (And before you scream about bias, I recently told Thul the EXACT SAME THING when he was speaking to me as envoy-- I want to do full tests with him on one of his complaints before I do anything further.)

Xenthos, you are one of the envoys I was mentioning who is totally unable to view this problem objectively if you think that a range of 281-401 damage is acceptable.

Nightkiss does something 1000+ damage to me (and I will find a log somewhere). Moonburst is doing under half of that. The damage formulas are relatively similiar, yet the sheer number of magic resistances place the actual damage under half. I don't think that was ever the intent.

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I have also been informed that the Magic Skillset by itself offers something like a 20-30% straight reduction on magic type damage. That's just way too much.

You're also taking into account some massive Moondancer resists to magic, which makes me somewhat skeptical (as Soll has detailed). There's nothing wrong with asking for more details and more extensive tests. Nor is there any reason to get so defensive when someone asks for more tests-- here's your chance to prove you're right! Go forth and do so!

Last time I tested, it was with nature curse. I have inept magic, magic proofed robe, furrikin magic resistance (lvl 3), maiden resistance, drawdown, and moon aura. Nature curse did 76, newbie kick did 78. I can sparkle for more than anyone short of a demigod could probably moonburst me for, let alone health sipping. I can tank gorgogs without any defenses or armor, or even health vials, if I use Waxing a bit. Gods forbid I ever trans Magic, or I'll be practically immune to magic damage.

This has been envoyed before, but is there a specific reason it was rejected?

I saw something out of the corner of my eye while reading this thread.

Turgeis has fallen to the magical prowess of Hexe Tuek Myeras, Heir of Ellindel.

Anyways, yes. I take more than 200 damage from a moonburst. Or 400. Heck, I think yours does like 850 to me, and that's with some anti-magic defenses going.

Real solution? Nerf moondancers.

Every single member of Celest or Serenwilde has decent access to Maiden/Benediction magic resistances. Every person has potential access to Splendor Robes (or just plain great robes with a magic proof) and the Magic skillset. Combat balance has nothing whatsoever to do with who amongst said people can afford to get the abilities - it has to do with the actual abilities themselves being possible.


Believe it or not, a Krokani Paladin has the largest access to magic reduction (and is a feasible combat class):

- Level 3 magic resistance via racial (30%?)

- Access to robes/splendors (10-20%)

- Benediction (not exactly sure, but 10-15% from what I can tell)

- Magic Skillset (20-30%)

- Dragon (20%)

- Numen (short period, but an additional 50%)



1. Is that with a 100% magic charm?

2. What other magic resistances do you have?

Don't forget draconis.

Oh, and according to Torc's AB file, it's supposed to reduce magic damage as well though I've heard it doesn't.

What is your magic skillset at? I don't think an 850 damage moonburst is physically possible with transcendent magic. Transcendent magic is not a 20-30% reduction. It is a 30%+ reduction, as in it is > 30%. I Moonburst an UNDEFFED Lyco for about 650 (and comeon, who really walks around undeffed?). I remember one time I attacked Mitch (or was it Marcalo?) in their manse (back when you could teleport/beam between them). It took me 13 Moonbursts to kill him after he was 100% incapacitated and he didn't perform a single action that entire time. You then have Warriors like Ixion, or anyone with surge, a decent race, and level 80 or so, who can tank 3 people spamming Moonburst no problem (Ixion can handle about 6 people spamming Moonburst with no sparkleberry and not even sipping on every balance, just occasionally.)

Assuming you take decent damage from Moonburst - it means you likely are one of the few classes that doesn't have an insane, imbalanced amount of magic resistances available to you. As such, changing the damage type would likely in no way impact the amount of damage you receive. If you aren't resisting the magic, changing to to something else you don't resist in effect will cause you take no more damage.

It would, however, make the attacks mentioned viable against classes that do have insane magic resistance.

Why is Magic the only damage type that has a skill devoted to doing absolutely nothing beside protecting from it? At least Resilience gives you shrugging, and covers all physical damage. Why have we been told Magic will not cover elemental damage? Is Magic damage really that much of a problem?

Valid point. Changing the damage type won't increase the damage against you if you are already taking say, 900. It will simply get around those who resist it so much. You might even take less, because then it might fall on your racial resistance, or you'd have the benefit of some other buff (there is not as many resistances to any other magical type of damage than there is magic however.)

If using a weapon is so much better than your magic attack, then why not just go ahead and use a weapon in combat?

There is nothing stopping you if it is so much better.

I still want tests. If you're going to bring in physical weapons to say "Look, one hit by these does more," then show us how it works out over time.

I really don't see a Moondancer picking up an axe and using it over Moonburst, for MANY reasons.

You missed the point. I implied that a crappy two-handed axe could dish out as much damage against me than a moonburst. While yes, the axe will miss frequently and isn't truly something I expect someone to use, the relative uselessness of attempting to do so is on par with attempting to kill someone with moonburst that does 401 damage.

However, I would state that a decent broadsword would be more useful if only because you could swing/shieldstun which as a combo (even if the sword misses 90% of the time) is still by far more effective than 401 damage with no stun.

And you are missing the point. Its like, lets give everyone the ability to do the same amount of damage as warriors, without giving warriors any means to give the hinderability of guardians and wiccans.

Hailstorm, a room attack, does around 1000 damage to me through my splendor robes (cold proof and 63 blunt), drawdown, etc. It is a -room- attack. Boulderbash is about the same. Cosmic Fire does, routinely, more damage than the symbols. Nightkiss does over 1000 damage to me.

Aquamancers, Geomancers, and Shadowdancers already do more damage because even though the damage formula when compared to moonburst/symbol is relatively similar, it is not possible to achieve anywhere near the amount of resistance to cold, fire, asphyxia, etc. as it is magic.

This has very little, if anything, to do with warrior damage. And for the record, Ixion is now able to double lunge me (doing about 1600-1800 damage), pin leg me, in dark moon. Daevos (before being a titan and before manuevers) could usually get a sliced tendon on me in one assault. Lyco, as a Ebonguad, could pin leg me on the first combo. Murphy could often get blackout/stun on his first combo. I consider that pretty damn good hindering.

I think a partial solution would be to actually breakdown magic into magic and elemental resistances. Give it a resist level of 15% at transcendent to magic, fire, poison, electric, and cold. I don’t think moonburst needs an extreme boost since moondancers also have the ability to drain mana and a passive damage attack, but I do think doing 400 damage to someone with an active attack that does not cause any bleeding to coincide with it is a bit too low.

I like this idea, and I think it would be very appropriate to provide equal opportunity to decrease all damage types via certain skills. I know in other IRE games there have been miniskills to cover poison, fire, cold, etc damages... since we don't have it would be nice to have skill in magical resistance cover all of them. 30% is way too much though, surely resilience doesn't provide anywhere near that?

I can also see why it would be more convincing to offer tests that do not use Moondancer targets, who we all acknowledge have some of the best damage reduction defences you can get.

The first minireport I asked for 50% fire/50% magic moonburst, and it was made clear that wasn't going to happen. If you want to be convincing, show the spectrum of moonburst damage from inept->trans magic, and from undeffed->normal->moondancer defences. The furrikin bonus is crazy-good, but that should be clear in a concise set of tests.