Oh, I know there were complaints, but from what I remember, they mainly originated from Narsrim and Amaru. I made a comment earlier about how interesting it was that people who were silent back then are suddenly so vociferous.

Nico, I didn't have a problem beating you before the helm. It wasn't 12-second-rediculous.

Forren, the only time you beat me before the helm was when heartburst was overpowered and sparkleberries did not cure burst vessels yet. Once sparkleberries started curing vessels, I won.

Umm.. psionics has been here for a long longer than I have been.

Didn't have a problem beating you when it cured sparkleberries, til the helm.

What are you talking about? I don't remember ever losing to you excluding that time period with overpowered heartburst. And yes I realized my mistake, and corrected it. I was referring to the time when suddenly psionic mages were everywhere.

Ok, I've fought Nico and in my opinion he is the most qualified person in the guild to be the champion. So I hope that settles the question of whether he should be in his position or not.

If I had to rate the champion artifacts in a generalist order from best to worst, I would rate the helms in the middle of the Pets and the Staves. That said, I still think that the best thing we could do for this realm is to just remove their bonuses except for rescue. With the way damage bonuses stack the helm and to a lesser degree the staff (for mages) can be extremely powerful. The artifact pets also allow for certain combinations of attacks that can be very brutal (and hence considered overpowered by many). Taking all of what I mentioned into consideration, I again put forth my contention that champion artifacts should only allow the champion to rescue guildmates or citymates.

Agreed. Champions shouldn't need the extra boost.

Considering so many things have changed this eyar in the realm, back when Murphy was Champion, he was good, but he in NO WAY had the wounding power you do now. I've fought Murphy many, many times and I've never had the issues I've seen with the way BC+Helm works now. things have changed, it's no longer easy to keep a warrior entangled for instance, it's no longer easy to get an instantkill off or even escape anymore. I don't follow knight changes to close, but never has Murphy fought and kept someone stunned for near 60% of the fight.

If you honestly think you are that good Nico, stop trying to defend how stupidly powerful the helm is...didn't you say that you were good enough to beat most fighters without it already?

Oh yea Murphy did. Murphy did a good bit more damage in wounds than Nico. I've fought him plenty enough times while he was the champion in two different warrior guilds. The champion helm has actually been decreased in effectiveness since Murphy had one. A bug was found in it that gave a 30% boost in wounds, instead of the 15%? they are suppose to give.

Murphy did on average around 1k- 1.2k wounds on crush combos to me. How is he doing more wounds when Nico gets me to Critical in 2-3hits? In the one example, he crushed my leg once for almost 2kwounds.

Let me point out, this was back when I was ShadowDancer though..so maybe Nightkiss defence helped alot with that.

2 to 3 crush attacks, or 2 to 3 normal attacks. Critical damage is at about 3.6k. Also, I would put forth the possibility that your leg was already wounded or you were not wearing any robes. Why do I say this, because I removed my robes (I bash creatures with elemental attacks in my robes) and used assualt on myself with my wounding two-handed sword that has these stats:

It is a two-handed weapon.
Damage: 211 Precision: 523 Speed: 179
It has a Great Rune of the Vernal Knight attached to it.
It has a Great Rune of the Vernal Knight attached to it.
It has a Great Rune of the Vernal Champion attached to it.
It has a Great Rune of the Vernal Champion attached to it.
It has a Great Rune of Elemental Fires attached to it.
It has a Great Rune of the Jagged Lightning attached to it.

I had 16 strength at the time of my assault, and my wounds from that jab was 2955.

Your wound status is:
_'''''_
/ \\
@ ( 0) @
\\_ _/ Deep Wounds:
| | -------------
_____/___\\_____ Head: no wounds
/ \\ Chest: no wounds
| | ( 0) | | Gut: no wounds
( 2955) ( 0) Larm: no wounds
| | ( 0) | | Rarm: heavy
\\___|_______|___/ Lleg: no wounds
R | | | L Rleg: no wounds
| | |
( 0)|( 0)
| | |
_| | |_
(_____|_____)

Now that is with no armour or defenses on. There is no way he could have gotten 2k from one crush on you, because I actually do more wounds than him with my two-hander to myself, than he does to me with two attacks. He also only has 16 str mind you.

Unless Arena doen't remove wounds, I had no wounds. I was fighting HAiden the night before, then logged off. The night I fought Nico, I had just logged on about 10mintue earlier and he was the only enemy I had gone after.

EDIT: I've a forgetful mind..but I'm damn sure I didn't fight anyone between those times..... but either way..even ignoring my example... Champion Helms need to be nerfed..it's that simple.

Oooo a bonecrusher thread. For the record yes I did more wounding than Nico does now, but i didn't -rely- on it. I could still beat all the top tier on a regular basis with no helm/no helm + speed hammers. That's not to say my weapons and helm didn't help a lot (they did, trust me) but i was still extremley deadly as a bonecrush when the helm did NOTHING AT ALL.

Nico you're wrong on a few points there, aslaran warrior I had 13 str during day (majority) and 17 str at night (minority of the time) I actually preferred to have the normal 14 str.

Also your assumption of my weapons stats is incorrect, i won't tell the world my stats.

I haven't seen nico in a while, but judging from that fight and the other's i've seen, the boost actually really makes Nico able to kill people he would have a lot more stuggle with.

One of the problems is you did it too quickly, in a lot of my old fights (where i wasn't going for my 3 combo kill which is crush X 4, crush rleg smitedown for the kill which i know narsrim and amaru loved) I took my time to kill someone. Go for the double mangled leg thing, then proceed to kick their ass. There will be less bitching if you use the full extent of your offence and drill someone down to the point where there is no doubt that they were dead, due to your skill rather than insane wounding. That will come with time but try experimenting with your full offence.

that being said, on robe wearers, mages especially, a warrior like that is gonna be hard to kill.

Pardon my mistakes concerning your stats and stuff, it's what I had heard, and I think the stats are still somewhere in that range. Also, I assumed night and lich were in effect.

And as far as combat, yes, like you said, the helm definitely helps. It allows me to do that same combo you do. 4x head, 1x leg, smitedown. Of course I can do as you said and mangle both legs and THEN kick the shit out of them, but really, what's the point when facing a mage? I watch their health applications, so if they don't apply health I know I can kill them in a few quick combos, so why not? I've already experimented with my full offense to the point where the only person in Celest who will still spar me is Geb. I only really opt for the mangled leg thing when I feel like toying with my target, or rubbing it in that I have them completely helpless. For one, it takes time. In group combat or even simple 1v1 fighting you have to be fast, especially against Seren and Mag who have so many friggin cubixes(thus backup is always nearby). So, in my opinion the only opportunity to fully utilize my offense is in a spar/duel situation. Maybe I should've taken my time with Forren, but oh well. Would've saved me a lot of grief on the forums.

Murphy please stop it with your revisionist history. You did not defeat all of the top tier fighters regularly outside of being a champion with the helm. Two, you really only defeated me personally when I could not wear a helm or use robes to cover my head. Once I was able to use the robes to cover my head, you never defeated me. Last, your weapons were significantly better than Nico's, so yes you did not have to rely on the helm as much. Even so, you had the helm just like him, and your sequences of attacks are the same sequences Nico uses now. It is just that you did more wounding and actually had a superior helm bonus than he does now (From that time period between the Helms being upgraded and Roark finding the bug that overly boosted the wounding bonus).

Welcome to my world Nico. Welcome.

Actually Geb I used to beat you before the helm even did ANYTHING AT ALL. Albeit not regularly but then again you didn't beat me regularly either. All top tier fighters should have trouble beating the others (provided it's not a silly matchup like guardian vs guardians/wiccan) otherwise you're either overpowered or not in the top tier. You can't say i never beat you with you having head protection because that just isn't true. I mainly came on this thread to offer advice, so keep your ego in check gebbers i don't even play anymore.

Looking at the stats on Nico's weapons, he has more -base- wounding than I did. If you know how the champ helm works, it adds a lot of speed to combat as well. Diamante as a human was hitting almost as fast as an aslaran with a champ helm even using morning stars he was quick enough to make me question being aslaran.

With no champ bonus from the helm, I used to regularly defeat top tier fighters as much as they regularly defeated me. That's what the top tier is all about, you don't win em all and you don't have to.

My sequence of attacks differ greatly to Nico's, i don't see him getting mangle breaks regularly to nail someone, nor do i see him getting and burstorgans kills (it's possible but if you never try you never find out)

Nico: I agree with your sentiment as why not go for the quick kill, I did it a lot. However to all the whiners it's about 10% chance or less for the combo to come off. All your crushes have to hit, then your rleg cruch HAS to knockdown, then your smitedown has to hit the head and then bashbrains has to come off.

If you really want to be a pain in the ass (works nicely for aslaran) try this combo out, it worked for me a couple of times and it failed a couple of times.

Crush head X 4, Crush head/raze, switch to shield then shieldstun smitedown, it's a better combo I think, and you don't need them prone as there is no parry while stunned and you get their head wounding a decent amount lower due to the extra crush.

False, you only defeated me 1 on 1 when I could not wear any helm on my head or raise my hood. Once that changed, you never defeated me 1 on 1 as a warrior murphy. Not once, not ever other than that time period. Get your facts straight.

Yeah. i've done that combo too. It's not a bad way to do it, it's just that if you don't manage to get that brain bash on the first few smite downs, you're giving them more time in between stuns to heal.

And I've thought about burst organ kills, going to start practicing them on some people. My idea is to work gut to critical, head to medium. Smite down for blackeye, then go for burt organs while they're blacked out. Always wondered about this tactic's viability, cause anyone who gets blackout would diag to catch anything missed. Another idea is just to keep them off salve balance with shriveled arms, legs, and crushed legs long enough for burst to go through. Dunno about that though.

Sounds like "well my dad can beat up your dad." No one reading this thread cares save for you two. I just got smacked down hard by a group in Faethorn. Deal with it, and move on.