Even though, I voted yes, based solely on the merits of the overall idea. Though I also think that Lusternia as a whole should move away from automation as the basis of conflict. Instead I would like to see more dynamic conflicts, wars not only of steel and magic but also science and trade.

Not that my opinion counts for much, since I've been lurking for so long, but Daevos does bring up a good point. Quests, construction, and other conflict-driving mechanisms become boring after their first go or so - once the novelty fades, it becomes "grinding" of one sort or another. It'd be nice if the buildings and their associated actions weren't given out in advance with a set of predetermined effects, but initiated by the leadership and approved by the Divine and created after a long process (long enough to get it coded, at least) and a lot of player effort so that the players can see a direct effect of their efforts on gameplay. Hmm, I guess what I'm trying to say isn't clear.

Right now, what the players can do is limited by gameplay (not including Divine interference, of course): players can put their effort in, but their rewards are determined by quests, bashing, etc., all part of the game world. Players know the results of various quests in advance, and choose which one to do based on the knowledge of their rewards. But if that order was reversed, and players chose their reward first (e.g., Tainting the Star Council), then initiated research, talk with the Divine, do whatever's necessary to obtain it, and is rewarded after a month or even longer with, say a custom barracks with the room descriptions, room plans, building purpose, all supplied by the players themselves, then the world would be more dynamic. In other words, (and please don't take this in an offensive tone, even though the wording will come out that way - sorry about that) the programmers should stop writing plot/guide books and start acting as rule-bending DMs.

As for the more specific types of nexus structures that have been brought up, I think the structures focused toward bashing and player-buffing should also have more of an effect on RP. I can't think of anything off the top of my head, but something like the "Aetheric Lure" sounds too generic and PvE focused - if it had an RP flavor, i.e., something a function that makes a Serenwilde Aetheric Lure uniquely Serenwilde and represents an advance in the RP (I don't know, maybe the Aetheric Lure is banned by gnomes or has an adverse effect on Maeve's realm or something like that, and the Serenwilde has to deal with that).

I voted yes, I think its a grand idea.

It would be nice if all of the different structures had some sort of extra RP value too. Much like the stone of Nintoba that Estarra mentioned. The structures could perhaps have the same effect in all the orgs but all look different for those orgs, more Celestial or more Glomdoring for instance. It would be nice if they added to the city or communes flavour in that way. I love flavour!

Speaking of Flavour! Give us more Histories first!

I couldn't agree more.

Sure, that's a great idea if players can come up ideas that could be implemented and is fair and balanced. I'd actually prefer that players come up with things they'd want to defend. Note that what would NOT be acceptable are things like "tainting the Star Council" or specifically harming other player orgs or changing predetermined plots/directions. In other words, if the proposed rewards they choose were along the same lines as we've been outlining, I'd be all for having that as the upgrade.

BTW, I don't know if you've noticed, but we are quite open to new additions like the Silent Cathedral or Hotel Celest. Just two examples of ideas we liked enough that we added quests into them.



That's pretty vague! Can you give us examples of "dynamic conflicts" and wars of "science and trade"?

It's easy to come up with grand sounding ideas but quite another thing to get specific.

I see you chose to ignore my comment so it is in quotes above... So Estarra if you could please reply to this one... I would be indebted

What broken quests?



Honestly, if we wait for all the "little kinks" to be ironed out before we do anything, nothing would get done! But to be more specific, we don't have all our coding talent piled onto one project. (This actually can be inefficient and slow things down--too many cooks and all that.) I have said the the aethercraft specs are a priority, and the envoy mini reports are meant to address the 'tweaking' necessary on an ongoing basis.

What can I say, when it comes to vague concepts, I'm your man. But I guess I could try my hand at being specific as well.

A dynamic conflict is simply a conflict that has an end and a beginning, a battle that has a specific purpose. In other words the war is only the means to the end rather than the end itself. But most of all, it has no preordained outcome. I actually view them as being intrinsically linked to dynamic plots, which is something that I feel is lacking in the game currently. I can look at every event in this game, and know without a shred of doubt that upwards of 90% of them had a preordained outcome, and that's actually depressing.

To give an example of an event that was absolutely fluid without a doubt, I actually have to go way back to one in Imperian. To be specific, it was the Arythian Rowan event, which happened in the early days of that game. It begun simply enough with an earthen sage, that was found wounded and bleeding in a hidden grove. He had come under attack from a horde of orcs and was desperately trying to escape them. Several came to his aid but even with the vanguard of the horde slain it was not enough to save his life. Before he breathed his last breath though, he entrusted a mysterious root to one of his rescuers and urged him to guard it with his life. The mystery of the root was even further emphasized by the fact that Avasyu himself appeared to give a warning. In one month, the full force of the horde would march, and they would allow nothing to stand in their way. But until that time, the root could not be dropped or taken inside, lest the magic imbued into its very nature cause it to vanish. Avasyu bestowed upon everyone the ability to discern the location of the root so that it could not be hidden, and for twenty five hours were battles fought for possession of the root, until finally it was planted within Khandava. Right before the bloodiest battle that I can remember was fought against the horde to defend it. The end result that for all time, citizens of Khandava had an easier means of escaping from Dis. But it could have gone another way. The issue I had with the event is that Avasyu shouldn't have been personally involved; they could have found another way to give clairvoyance and the warning about the root and the horde. But overall, I think there is truly no better way to do a conflict based event, interesting yet fluid. No one knew the end result; they just fought for the possibility of benefit.

Conflicts of Science and/or Trade can be quite fluid as well, either event based or automation. Though to give a example of a trade based conflict automation, what if the way villages tithed commodities and power was changed and instead they commissioned armed caravans to transport the commodities and special modified powerstones to the organization that they are loyal to. The caravans would leave at random and varied times, with the organization receiving a notice that the caravan had left thus giving them the opportunity to intercept and guard it. That would also increase the importance of spies in other organizations, since finding out when a caravan had left is of course very valuable information. On Science, the metal creature at the Necromentate is a good example of a advancement, but more advancement like that would definitely be appreciated. Even if it is just small things like finding uses for sewer creatures.

I understand that... lets see the krokani/aslaran area quest has been bugged forever... and shrines still have problems... there are some more quests I think that are problematic but I am having a brain fart... if anyone else remembers please let us know here... other than that... aethercraft.. which you have mentioned and of course the monthy envoy reports... and you know I Estarra, no matter how offensive I sound

I really like the idea of these Nexus Worlds, it has a lot of potential, I especially like how it's basically a new approach on conflict quests, without being so limiting as them. Though, it might give demesnes a lot of power in these type of conflicts.

However, I also like Daevos' idea of quests that really can accomplish something forever, it would be grand, and involve a lot of RP opportunity. It wouldn't even need to be made known worldwide, it could slowly become obvious that something is planned in any city/commune, for example unnaturally many fumes over Magnagora, or Celest sparkling a few times a day additionally.

Put, to stay on topic of Nexus Worlds, I defenitely vote yes, it's a damn neat idea, and since there's unlimited room for additional additions added later, it can always bring new excitement to the players that enjoy conflict as well as to those that enjoy building and trading, since all aspects of that will be called to accomplish building and defending it.

Permanence doesn't even have to mean a permanent change to mechanics. Say a new area comes out, or an old area, for whatever reason, undergoes some kind of turmoil. The conflict could forever change the flavor of the area--the denizens take on an attitude sympathetic to the victorious side, for example. It still allows conflict without ever driving an org into the ground.

Just an idea, though. Nine times out of ten, I like admin ideas better than my own.

One of the Ephs already fixed that because of some comments made in another thread. Keeeep up

I voted no because I think Warriors in general (and Axelords more than the others) should be fixed first. But I like the ideas anyway.

And unrelated question: is Fallen from the forums = Forren in game?

No, Forren on the forums is Forren in game.

Warriors did get something, go play with it

Fallen keeps making new alts, so he's hard to track. His most notable character is Jairdan.


EDIT: I think this poll is lacking. The choices should be "Yes." "No, I think the idea is a bad one," and "No, I think other things should be handled first."

Like Estarra said, their hard work on one does not preclude working on other things, so I don't think the "other things take priority" applies. The poll also doesn't state that they are going to drop everything to do this.

Programing is not always a case of time + manpower = faster service. Some problems are difficult to implement and require a lot of testing. This doesn't mean that all resources can or should be devoted to one problem. In fact, it can be a case of "two many cooks spoil the broth", since it's not always easy to divide up programing tasks like that.

I've bit my tongue before whenever players start talking about events with words like "no preordained outcome" or "freeform" or "organic", but I'll just now come out and say that these events never work. Yes, I know it sounds awesome that an event is "open ended", but I have never seen it pulled off. In theory, I once loved this idea and have even been involved in such events. However, reality is that these events are horrendous for everyone involved (admin and players), and I've since chalked it up as an idea that sounds nice in theory but fails on execution. (That's not to say that our events aren't flexible. They are and it is not uncommon that we adjust events as they unfold. It's just something you don't see from a player perspective.)

I know nothing about Imperian or events there, but it sounds as though it was simply a 'race' type event with the winner getting the goodie.

In general regarding events, one thing I'd like to emphasize is that the best way to inspire events is through roleplaying with the gods and mobs. Also, develop good relations with gods close to you. If gods don't feel they have your support, they are less likely to want to run events for you. What?! The admin aren't emotionless robots and they really do respond to negative feedback by ignoring you!! You better believe it. You say if they can't take the heat, they shouldn't be gods? Then there would be NO gods in ANY IRE game if that was the policy. I love events and I always encourage them; however, if the admin get burned when running events by player apathy or downright hostility, they aren't going to be motivated to run another. (Yes, this is a shameless plea for players to be more supportive to our hardworking volunteers who can and have been discouraged.)



I think the caravan thing would prove to be another grief-fest. If history is any example, it would be fun at the beginning but eventually it would become a grind that players would incessantly complain about. The hardcore PKers may love it but the general populace would come to loathe it. Just what we want to avoid! (It would also encourage seconds used to gain information and lead to issues of proving someone's second is passing information which wouldn't be pretty.)

I think some of what people are saying, though, is that it would be nice to see (in addition to things like nexus worlds) actual events that promote conflict. Take the sea quests as an example. Raising Marilynth and Ladantine would have been extremely fun if they were events that took place once... but they weren't. They were quests that had to be done continuously, were perceived by many people as a grind, and have now basically been removed from the game (or, their impact has been). I think it'd be nice to see conflict introduced through dynamic one-time events (ie. the tainting of the fae event as an example, though I know it was detested by many people) rather than continuous quests that become boring after a while.

Conflict quests and mechanically coded conflicts like nexus worlds aren't a bad thing (I like them, I mean, look at my sig) but sometimes the one-time events are nice too.