Yeah it was something suggested in the mini envoy report. Relax.

There was no problem to look into. And come on, you can't be serious about the playerbase being ignored. Ethereal was raped beyond all belief because of the forum. Avenger was twisted into the disgrace it currently is because of the forum. The fact is, if people hadn't of decided, without wanting to think about it, to whine about Esteem, it wouldn't have been changed.

"Constructive" criticism only works if you actually know for a fact there's something wrong. No one was willing to acknowledge the facts about the cost of buying esteem, so their criticism was anything but constructive.



Because of the forum, as Xavius said.

Christ, Fallen, if you hate every single aspect of the game and you revile the playerbase then you can leave. We won't stop you.

Oh, and we all know the Admin's position on anything in an Envoy report. "Oh, they want to nerf themselves? Sure! No need to look into it."



What.. so you're trying to tell me that the forum (which is a small portion of the playerbase) isn't a bunch of whiners, on average? And that Ethereal wasn't raped? And that the current Avenger system isn't laughable?

Just because there havn't been any problems about it -yet- does not mean there is no potential for a problem in the future. You cannot gain karma from offering corpses you didn't kill..why did they do that? So that when people karma cursed you you can't just tell your buddies to bash up some corpses and remove it for you just like that, it's the same thing with imbued items. I don't see what's so wrong about it.

Because its not really possible to do this with influencing? To get 100% esteem takes several rounds in the only Prime influencing area. Yeah.. go ahead and get several buddies to go there all at once... oh wait.. that would be counter-productive.

Ok.. fly a ship out to Candyland, and burn power and time, and stiiiill take many, many rounds to get 100%.. which still isn't enough to burn off a curse.

It was a problem with corpses, yes, because people could just jump on to astral (when it was weaker, remember) and come down with hundreds of corpses in no time.

There is a big difference.

----

Nevermind. I'm just going to walk away from this topic now.

Ethereal is pretty much fine now, thanks to player input, I don't really give a damn about the avenger system because I'm not a fighter. All I know for sure is that you're a ****ing hypocrite and ought to shut your mouth before you make even more a fool of yourself.

That's definitely not true...I can get esteem insanely fast. Remember that guards give 1% each and they are everywhere

No not really. When I was an envoy for that short time... I noticed that lets say someone wanted to nerf something... well it was very possible that all the others would not agree to it... or they would say well if you want to nerf "this", we will accept if you let us nerf "that". Then the one who was whining would normally drop it real quick. And even if it is all agreed upon... that does not mean the Divine would say hey OK the Envoys have spoken and it will be done that way... They can refuse, or change it to their liking.

This again was a no brainer... I do not get karma for offering other people's kills.... Why should I for offering esteem gained by someone else?? It helps the influencers.... the only people it hurts are the people who are too lazy to go get karma, which is not too difficult to get in the first place really... And like you said... if no one uses karma curses anyways... why are you so worried about your karma??

Uh... what? There are tons of Prime influencing areas - Tosha is the best one, because of the gold it gives, but if you're just after esteem you can influence merians, krokani, orcs, aslarans, villagers, guards, and lots of other things.

You know, I was going to respond to this, but I decided, after writing out what I think of you, to take a breath and delete it.

You can think what you want, Guido. I'm not asking for it to be changed. But I'm allowed to vent my furstrations on the fact that it was 'fixed' when it wasn't broken, without being looked into, simply because a small "elite" of the players didn't like it.

That is not a trend that I think is positive. And I don't have to keep quiet about it.



You're an idiot. End of Story. Until you've taken multiple characters up to level 80 on pure influencing, like I have, you can't argue influencing with me. The esteem you'd get from other sources would take even longer, considering how quickly they'd drop and how often they're bashed out.

Now, stop adressing posts to me, cause i'm not going to respond any more.

Looks like you responded anyway? And by all means suggest alternatives to the change, or contest it, but don't run around screaming about how horrible and evil we all are. You're acting no better than the sort of people you're accusing, with your "I know best!" attitude. Speak to your guild envoy or post a topic in Ideas.

I put it in the report because I liked Cuber's suggestion. I didn't bend under the pressure of whining. I think I read, oh, a page and a half of that thread. It maintains the potency of curses by not allowing people to buy their way out of them. A similar system was instituted for corpses for similar reasons. I apologize if it looked like something else. Truth be told, it's not just the admins that read the forums, and it's not just whining that gets things done.

My favorite part about this is that Estarra thought we would all be bitching about discretionary powers and it turns into a bitchfest about Imbuing items and Karma. I love the forums.

I've talked to people on all sides of the ethereal issue, and most of them think that this is the best change that has ever happened to faethorn. It's the perfect combination of the free-flowing nature of old faethorn with the non-violent nature of new faethorn, with the cities thrown in to stir it up when/if they want to.

Shayle made a thread in idiots, and it was pointed out to me somewhere in it that no people should not be able to buy karma and essentially have unlimited karma for the actions of others.

You can still sell essence, or collect essence for defiling/sanctifying, but you can't stockpile -karma- now, it's a very good change.

I didn't mean the current change to Ethereal. I meant all the old changes.

And again, no one was going to have unlimited karma from esteem. If anyone would step back and look at the situation objectively, they'd see that.

Well, it's improved in that we can break melds (finally). However.. now all of the planes are harder to raid.

My personal stock was at one point about 500%, and I neither buy nor sell it. How in the world could you ever curse me?

Fallen, seriously, please stop all this whining, it's really uncalled for. Envoys get suggestions for changes from all sorts of places, and they show the suggestions they think are the best to the admin, and the admin decide if they are fair enough to incorporate into the game or not.

And for the record, my whining about the thornlash nerfs was that there were three different major nerfs to three different aspects of the skill all at once, which seemed a bit harsh to me

That's 125% karma. If you have a lot of suspects, you're looking at around 75 karma to remove a curse.. so that's just shy of the karma needed to remove 2 curses.

And, if you don't have a lot of suspects, you don't need the esteem to remove them anyway.

Care to try again?