Well, I thought I'd make a new thread so as not to hijack the announce one.

I really have grave concerns about the eventual effect of this magic fountain artifact. As far as I know, there are no other artifacts in existence that produce finished goods identical to that of a tradeskill, and potentially accessing all products of that tradeskill.

Now, realistically it won't be a problem at the moment. Five random vials a month is next to nothing, and the inherent variation in what you get will prevent any serious impact on alchemists or poisonists.

However, my concern is for the future, as organizations and nations can gradually build up a quantity of these resource spawns, until the impact on both alchemy and poison trades is significant. Imagine a year or two from now, if Celest has purchased 20 fountains for its citizens. That is 20 random elixirs/poisons a day, with five each assuming they are milked efficiently by the appropriate ministry. Even if it is changed to be limited to one fountain per manse, the cost of a single manse room does not add that much to the price of the fountain.

Obviously some common potions like health, mana and bromides will never be produced in enough quantity to affect their sale by alchemists terribly, but most others will be. The flood of these free potions will definitely affect the market prices of most of them, since the organizations will be able to sell them for next to nothing, or nothing.

Is anyone else concerned about this, or am I misreading things?

This means that communes don't have a tight leash on cities anymore. It's a Good Thing.

But it's ok for there not to be one for enchantments?

And I'd love a garden in my manse where I can plant herbs. It's not quite the same thing, you'd need Herbs still, but it would be cool.

If you ask me, it doesn't go far enough. 250 credits for 5 vials of random liquid a month? Probability states that it's far more likely to be an alcoholic beverage or poison than a curative potion, since there are more drinks and poisons than there are cures. Personally I'd like to see it upped to 10 vials of random liquid a month.

I don't think it's going to become a huge problem. Especially if it involves poisons and drinks. I don't think any city will actually spend that much on a fountain over selling credits to citizens, for example. Think about it, you have maybe 80-100 players who log in over the course of the day. You might provide a few people with potions, but not -everyone-, and you would have to wait a long time to gather a good stock of everything.

So I really wouldn't worry about it, the big buyers will keep buying

Oh, I'm not an alchemist... so I won't lose anything here.

I just think it goes against every policy decision up until this point regarding tradeskills.

I remember gardens in manses for private herb collection (at least still requiring a herbalist!) was rejected because it would give too many resources for free.

I can't imagine being able to buy an artifact mine that hiccups out gems randomly every month, or an artifact wardrobe that fills up with random greatrobes. I wouldn't expect to see a magical forge that sends out weapons with randomly forged stats each month, or a magical oven that gives you free food that is occasionally stat-enhanced. I sure as hell can't see an artifact that sends out dozens of dried herbs every month at random.

Can you not see how beneficial it would be if an organization gradually works to build up its resource spawn collection? I mean, we were talking about purchasing upgrades that let you travel easier, these are unlimited upgrades that give free consumables. Why wouldn't a clan, city or commune take advantage of it?

Well, they've already discussed something in the nexus worlds topic that would allow people to spend power to have a potion/enchantment filler (I think as long as there was 1 sip or 1 charge left), so I don't see how this is much different.

Indeed!

I think the primary difference between the two is that the aether-world construct requires at least 1 remaining charge/sip. Eventually the vial or piece of jewelry will decay and you'll have to find someone with the trade skill to get you jump started again.

With the fountain thing you don't need anything besides a vial. And then combined with the aether-world construct, you could keep using that same vial until it decays.

It doesn't really matter. You can't control what you get, and 5 refills isn't very much. It sounds like it'd be a fun artifact but not one that'd actually be very useful.

I should also point out that this projection into the future ignores the rich segment of the game population, who can afford to purchase a couple of fountains for their own benefit.

When there are hundreds of fountains in Lusternia (projecting fairly far), how will the alchemy and poison tradeskills not be affected?

It'll probably be useful for individuals, but definitely not for organizations. One of those can only really provide for a single person and occasionally, four other people whenever things like Vitae crop up.

Hundreds of fountains? Okay, so one person won't have to worry about refills if he spends 25,000 credits...

I meant in total, across all players and organizations.

100 fountains = 500 vials a day not requiring any herbalist or alchemist or poisonist. That's a lot of free vials being added into the economy.

Again, why aren't there free gems, free herbs, free food, free weapons, free jewelry, free enchantments, and free books (excepting journals )?

If I was insane, and spent all my savings on Lusternia to buy that 100 fountains myself (obviously not going to happen, but neither is it prevented)... what's to stop me completely destabilising the alchemy/poison market by giving away those refills for the cost of the vial? 500 vials A DAY. I could nearly destroy an entire tradeskill.

100 fountains = 25,000cr = ~$7500

-or-

25,000cr * 4,000gp/cr = 100,000,000gp

=================================================

You vastly (and I mean -vastly-) over estimate the credit supply of any city/commune.

Do you really think that over the course of a few years each org couldn't come up with less than quarter of that? And that no player will purchase fountains themselves?

Hmm, I wonder how many credits orgs/guilds do get.

NO city or organization will ever spend that much, unless they are incredibly stupid. It would be FAR cheaper to just let citizens buy their own refills or get kegs. I know I would never ever support Magnagora buying any of these unless we were 100% desperate and couldn't find a single alchemist to help us.

Could we at least have equivalents for the other tradeskills? Something to give 10 random gems of one type a month, sometimes a single powerstone (combine with a fountain nicely). That would be useful.

An enchanting artifact, of course. And maybe a bookbinding one so we can have a chance of getting the scrolls? Herbs is not too much of a problem, they're easily obtained anyway. Cooking.... nah, once you reach level 80 not a problem. Maybe an arti that gave random weapons/clothes each month, but they couldn't be smelted or mended. All at the same price... that would be pretty nifty for those who can afford it.

I see Elryn's point. Im kinda bored so I'd dabble with the possibilities..

5 random vials a day, you just get what you need and stock the rest in your shop. Over 1 lusternian year you'd eventually supply your own shop out with the fountain alone. Of course the cost of 250 credits is much for an individual to do this just for himself. But think of orgs. 1 city/commune fountain that is regularly checked by a ministry would stock 5 vials a month (60 vials per year). Considering you could sell one for 180 minimun (alcoholic drink w/ vial) - 900 (vitae w/vial), you could probably get a much as 1250 average per day (3 alcho+2 pots). If you could be lucky to have quicksilver, vitae, and charybdon then lucky you! More profits.

Now make that 3 fountains (750 credits that an entire city/commune could come up with if they go for fund raising events, that would be 180 vials a year. They could enter artisanal/bardic for this and donate it to their orgs ).

With our 1250 gold ave, that would give us 112,500 gold RL month (again 3 alcho + 2 low value pots ave). The ministry could buy 28 credits (@4000 gold ave) per RL month. In one RL year the entire org with 3 fountains could come up with roughly 336 credits - with just the shop profits (considering their taxes are free since it is the cities'/communes' property). If you add normal profits the orgs make per RL month, this could hasten the profits of course. say... 250 credits per 5 RL months? Enough to buy another fountain to increase and hasten the production for profits again. Rinse and repeat

Of course, this is to say the stuff gets sold (And pots do get sold, alcoholic drinks... well there should be one drunken magnagoran a day and weddings, celebrations, birthdays, whathaveyous...)

If the stuff doesnt get sold, you'd have plenty of stocks in shops that would decrese demand for pots/poisons/beverages which will affect the traders one way or another.

So now that I confused most with numbers and punctuation marks, Id stop before I get crazy myself. You guys just decide if its feasible or not.

You can't compare an artifact like this to something that would give out clothing. I'm lucky if I can sell one customer more than one article of clothing or accessory, most people just want packs. A magic wardrobe that spat out a few articles of clothing a day would be much more devastating to a tailor than something that gives out a few random potions. It would be even worse for an artisan or bookbinder, who I imagine sell even -less-.

I understand how the magic pool seems worrisome, but I think it's much less threatening than when, say, Rowena did refills, and you could -choose- back then. I'd be more worried about the nexus world upgrades.