Nice hijack.

Losing the symbol and having to get another 100 supplicants (it is 100, not 50-80) really sucks. Symbols aren't really good enough to warrent that much repeated work.

I fully support the idea of making symbols only require 10 or 25 supplicants/spikes after the first time, or even just require the 10P after the first time.

I don't see why players (As opposed to organizations) should be hindered by things they don't have the power to avoid. As it stands, kiling a supernal/demon is relatively commonplace; if one gets killed during off hours, it's just frustrating, boring, and doesn't add to the game. The added aggravation of losing a skill you very likely paid real-life money to get, not to mention all the time getting supplicants and whatnot that could have been much better spent, is a bad thing. Players should never be directly and personally harmed by events they have no control over; this is a basic design principle.

If you are a cosmic guardian, which is pretty much a priest-type role, it is my belief that having a catastrophic event to the source of your spiritual powers ought to have grave consequences. Of course, it should be a rare occurrence and we've tried to make it so that deaths of Supernals and Demon Lords aren't commonplace. As it stands, we may consider different approaches to the Supernals and Demon Lords so they can't be killed easily but that's another issue (though you are welcome to suggest ideas!).

Anyway, I'm certainly willing to reduce the number of spikes and supplicants needed. I'll go ahead and cut it down to 20 for now.

I think it was mentioned that having the Supernals tank more but do less damage would help. As it is, you basically either win instantly or you all die, since they have a few attacks that don't bother a huge group, and what amounts to something worse than thunderclap. It's been mentioned on the IRC repeatedly anyway, so there you go.

(Incidentally, was the lack of mention about making Avatars of Moon harder to kill as well, considering how much harder they are to raise, an oversight, or are they not to be looked at?)

Um, no, that wouldn't help at all. That'd just make them trivial because you could take a smaller group and not have to worry about the attacks so much.

Perhaps make an event or something? That we'll do a quest (VERY HARD and cannot be done alone) to make the Supernals/Demon Lords/Avatars invincible for the entire month? Just a suggestion though...

Escalating the Supernals and Demon Lords again is silly, unless you're going to either rethink the entire combat model for them, or make them invincible. Right now, it's either instant win or being terribly owned.



It would give you a lot more time to defend. Would you rather we take them out in seconds? It only makes them easier during off hours, when they're going to die anyway.

Main problem is that with preparation they would never die again.

I was thinking that if we got the Nexus worlds, one of the constructs there could offer some protection though it might have the same effect if it were as tough as the other ones sound

I'd rather if they were still killable normally. Too many org-quests is a bad thing.

As for invincibility quest - no such things as very hard quests that cannot be done alone. Every quest can be done alone, and it's very hard only at the first try, trivial at the others when you exactly know what to do. Unless it would require you to obtain a non-existant item, like Daevos's tear - then it'd be hard.

Well when I do mean hard, it's HARD, besides, once the quest is done, it's all worth it...

EDIT: Hey, I'm just suggesting

Avatars of Moon and Night are just as hard to kill as Supernals/Demon Lords. They have always been so!

Not sure why they would be harder to raise either.

Less access to essence- can't demesne earth/water, with the Avatars dead you can't bring in fae to make the little ethereal essence critters.

Really? A group of four-five people took out an Avatar, with the Ladies attacking constantly and everything, where it takes 15-25 to kill a Supernal.

Lack of commune access to essence. Don't say the new Ethereal creatures, because we can't spawn those when the Avatars are dead.

Ah, well, don't forget you can convert demons and angels ot essence!

Oh, and I really think that super powerful beings should be immune to critical hits - specifically, Avatars, Supernals/Demonlords, White Hart, Crow, et cetera.

They were doing that the first time Luna died, yes.

Not really sure why they didn't this time.

The avatars are under the exact same code as the Supernals/Demon Lords. Plus the avatars summon helpers. There isn't any difference as I look at it.