Tarot is said to be part of the Pagan religions that the Catholic churches campaigned against. It was the peoples way of remembering the old way and keeping it hidden from the Church.

So, um yeah nothing. The cards they picked were just because of the pictures, apparently, because they have the Devil as Chiron, which they say is "the wounded healer" and is about karma... except that has nothing to do with the Devil Card. The Devil Tarot card is about chaining oneself to negative situations and people through greed or vanity or obsession and the like. Its about people getting in the way of their own development.

You will find that that is a constant throughout tarot decks, unless you're getting into experimental decks like the Thoth Tarot by Crowley.

So yeah.. unless you know anything about tarot, don't just presume a site with pretty pictures is going to. All they did on that site was go "Hey, that picture has horns and animal legs. That'll work!"



Actually, that's not true. Tarot was originally a card game, but occultists of the time found that its suits and archetypes proved very useful in divination as a set yet flexible guide to what the cards meant.

Umm, we're arguing the same point. I'm saying that the planets are NOT intrinsic to Tarot, though someone could decide they were. Very few people who read Tarot or believe in reading Tarot think it has anything at all to do with the planets.

Also, Dag.. that's an astrology site. So you're showing us that Astrologers use tarot cards, not that tarot users use astrology. There's a difference.

You will find that that is a constant throughout tarot decks, unless you're getting into experimental decks like the Thoth Tarot by Crowley.

I have seen a few other tarot books/decks which don't put it that way.


"the wounded healer" and is about karma... except that has nothing to do with the Devil Card. The Devil Tarot card is about chaining oneself to negative situations and people through greed or vanity or obsession and the like. Its about people getting in the way of their own development.

However, what is to say that connecting yourself to negetive situations and people through greed, is not Karma? Wounded healer, sounds like getting what you think is good things from a bad source.

When I went to a Tarot reader on venice, he said that the devil card ment a reversal.

Oops, misunderstood then.

Ok, so I'm talking about the Not real Tarot people who happen to use tarot cards for other purposes other than what a TRUE Tarot believe uses them for.





I have also read that Card games, came from people using Tarot, who wanted to mock tarot users.

You didn't missunderstand, he is just quoting a different opinion. There are a thousand and one understandings out there of the occult.

Eh..Ill admit I made a mistake if told Im wrong..doesnt seem to matter if its true or not.

Here is another fun tarot system.

http://www.psyche.com/psyche/qbl/tarot_astrology.html



Well you were wrong in being wrong...

stand up for yourself a bit.

daganev.. you really know nothing about tarot.

Cards meanings change when they are in an actual reading. So when the devil card showed up in your reading, then yes, it could have meant a reversal. Tarot cards are not read by themselves in a full reading, but rather they are influenced by all the cards in the spread. For instance, if you had the Devil card followed by a card indicating freedom, then they could be read as a reversal.

And also, you love to spout things that you claim are fact.. why is it that when I quote a historical fact, its just an opinion?

Card games have been around for a looooooong time. Tarot cards were made for a game called Triumphs, or Trumps, which was developed in the 15th century in Italy. It was similar to Bridge.

It wasn't until almost the 17th century that occultists in England and Frace got a hold of them and began using them as a method of divination.

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Edit: also, you seem to be missing my point. The art of tarot in and of itself does not have anything to do with Astrology. Astrologists may have adopted Tarot and developed methods for its use in Astrology, but that does not make Tarot related to Astrology. Astrology uses Tarot, not the other way around. This can be shown by your own links. They have the Moon, but its not even represented by the Moon card.

I'm not denying that there are systems which use Tarot to perform astrology, I'm simply saying that that is astrology, and is different.

I am not claiming any facts... I am repeating what books on the subject have said.

There are people who like to trace tarot back to before christianity existed. It doesn't matter if they are wrong or not, that is what they like to do.


I am just dumbfounded that I am getting attacked for mentioning something that is pure entertainment, and geting lashed with issues of "truth"

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Devil_%28Tarot_card%29

On the devil card. It says lots of things, but it does not say what you said.

And if you look at this defintion of the devil card
http://www.psyche.com/psyche/tarot/trumps/devil.html

It doesn't say anything even similar to the wiki article.




And when Jung uses tarot, thats pyschology?

Or perhaps one should say that tarot users try to kill people with souless cards?

Or perhaps REAL tarot is just a card game, and doesn't have any meaning for the "devil" card or any other card?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tarot_%28game%29

So, think they'll stick with the name Xena for the outermost planet, or come up with something else, since that's only a colloquial name at the moment. What would you name the 12th planet? (You don't have to stick to Roman mythology if you don't want, but it's cooler).

Uhm... little bit off topic... but, Tarot was just a game... Just like poker or something like that. Occultist started to use it to "see into the future"... People still does that with the Spanish deck(The one with coins, swords, clubs and cups, as well as page, knight and king) which is really similar to the Tarot Lower Arcana deck (but instead of coins, pentacles and instead of clubs, staves)... I know someone that can read with the traditional deck(clubs, spades, hearts and diamonds)

Something more on topic... It is believed that Luna and earth are actually two planets, since the Moon was the remains of a planet that colided with the old Earth...

Each tarot deck has different means for each card. Some are similar to others, some are way far from similar. You can't judge just one deck, card, article, etc. People have used tarot for differnet reason. Reading the future, astrological signs, etc.

Yeah, this has gotten WAY off-topic. I wasn't expecting a religous debate...
I wasn't sure if many people would find it funny, but I got a little kick of it, and decided to share it.

But odds are Xena (currently officially known as 2003 UB313), would be given a different name.
More info here

If you were directing that at me... weird. I'm not saying change is bad, I'm saying change without strong scientific support is bad. I want to see Pluto/Charon dropped as a planet.

We now have a pretty good understanding of the evolution of the Solar System, and what likely goes into the making of a planet. Classification based solely on completely arbitrary physical dimensions doesn't really make much sense to me.

Sure, sharks and dolphins are both greyish in colour and swim in the sea... if we use those arbitrary observations to define a general class, why not call them both 'fish'? Because (and I'm hoping this is true, never having taken biology ) they have quite different evolutionary tracks and have such fundamental other differences that it would be completely misleading to group them together.

Astrology is an arbitrary protoscientific system. So is tarot. They have no obligation to adapt themselves to scientific definitions because they are neither scientific, nor in any way connected to reality.

Ahem. The new definition makes sense. It doesn't involve arbitrary numbers, but rather binary states. If it satisfies two criteria, which are yes/no states, then it's a planet - Much better than going to another galaxy, finding a body that is 749 kilometres in radius horizontally and 751 kilometres vertically, and then trying to decide whether it's a planet.

Is that the officially suggested definition? If so, that's not binary.

How round is round? If a body is composed of different materials, then the forces and dynamics that tend to a spherical shape are different.

Of the Pluto/Charon system, which is the satellite? Charon is over half the size of Pluto, and it is more appropriate to say they orbit about each other. Or is it? If you say Charon is a planet, then it cannot orbit about another planet without breaking the rule of the definition. Likewise with Pluto.

The key here is hydrostatic equilibrium. Does the body have enough gravity to pressure itself into a spherical shape, giving it a geoidal form? The important thing is that, even though there's a gradient involved and you can have rounder planets than others, it's something that is universal and depends on the body's physical properties, rather than an arbitrarily defined limit of mass or volume.