Well said.

If it's true, I am damn glad I decided NOT to check Glomdoring after all.

Could we not point fingers at people with stories that are likely to have more than one side to them? I think this thread is about constructive ideas and criticisms of guild processes in general.

Not trying to disparage individuals who really make an effort to help genuine newbies.

The reason I don't usually teach novices is because when I do, I prefer to dedicate as much time as possible to it, usually about a RL half-hour or more, so that they get as much information as I can possibly cram into their heads. Also, I like to make sure that the novice being taught isn't an alt, because I won't waste time with alts.

If we don't see for ourselves how newbies are treated, how will we know? Are you saying it would be better if the guild had no responsibility for novices? Player organizations police themselves--i.e., have a lot of freedom which is how it is. However, we have to also maintain the integrity of the overall game and if we find newbies being driven away, we do have to step in. My announce was just a head's up to say, hey, we're taking this seriously and we'd like everyone to at least know where we stand. Obviously, I hope this would be enough to raise awareness and not lead to a need to have to step in.

This would be the heart of the argument which I'm not bringing to this thread and lead to the abovementioned strike. We would appreciate that freedom, thank you.

I have no idea what you're talking about. Feel free to email or message me if there's some concern I'm not aware of.

(BTW, strikes aren't very effective if no one knows you're on strike.)

OMG I finally found that thread.


This was more on my mentor idea.
I think this would encourage more people to help novices, and encourage novices to reach out more.


http://lusternia.ire-community.com/index.p...ic=2473&hl=

Well if one wishes to know why, and they get an answer in form that is that. I don't think that was what she wanted to know when asking for more information on what is the stated concerns, but this does show something that can be fixed. And I doubt that we will hear all the sides of the stories behind each case of study.
Speculation is one thing, but giving to adding to ideas, I have created alts. And I play as dumb as can be, which yes, those who have had long contact with Isluna know thats pretty easy thing for me to do. I have seen some needless behavior from some, and I have seen the out right go the full nine yards from others. The ideas of finding the times when these survays were done is very good, and spreading out the undersecs, guild guides I think would improve alot of the experience. The Moondancers use to have an elder dancer watch over the training of novices, as part of their advancements. I thought that idea a good one, but saddly it sort of fell through. Maybe implamenting something of the like, will help. It offers more of a chance to rping and brings those who might not really know others in the guild a bit closer to guildmates.

That's awesome.

I don't really like the idea of the lectures in the mentor thread. The whole point of mentors is that they are meant to take time to HELP you through things. Just having a little command to lecture them is not going to do this.

Really, though, I think that while every member should be teaching, perhaps every once and awhile some guild novice helper could come and watch them do it. Make sure that they're doing alright. The only problem with this is people tend to be nicer, teach better, when they have to be watched. So, uhm, I have no idea how to ready that except to maybe ask a novice they taught how it went as well.

Also, asking on channel if anyone has questions or concerns, while you are on the prime at least, can help the more timid novices.

Just some uhm thoughts I came up with while waiting for a response from an email.

The lectures command is more of an incentive to have the novice seek out a mentor. Currently there are few reasons I believe why a novice would seek out a mentor. These are not meant to take the place of taking the time to help them as the lectures do not begin to encompass the type of health a novice needs.

Everyone is expected to train newbies, in the dancers at least. In the most recent reworking of the coven the Moondust area was set aside to further esentuate that point. -everyone- should train novices, I don't care if you're a security member, or champion, or don't like them, if you're the only one around you should take some responsibility for them.


I tend to kid around with Shayle a lot.. but I've got to point out: If you had been a real newbie you would not have been so dead-set against refusing Shayle's help on explaining how to use your basic skills.


As for leadership -strikes- ? Leadership can't strike, vote them out for being idiots and not helping their guilds.

Then I really must be missing the point of the lectures. Please explain it?

Honestly, I seek out mentors in the games I play for a few reasons.

1) When I'm new to a game, it REALLY helps to have a mentor. This includes any new IRE games.

2) If I'm new to the area, I.E. have never RPed, I've found having a mentor helps you learn a lot of RP.

3) The guild requires it.

Guilds could require it. Just as a rule, not a get out of novicehood thing. I guess.

Also, sending novices tells really makes them feel welcome I think.


Edit: Another thing. I don't think the moondancers stress enough that ANYONE can teach. Everyone I've ever met made me feel like it was only for moondust. Which is why I ended up joining moondust, so I could teach and help. Quite a few other people seem to think that too. So, perhaps, someone should post to the wicca clan about this so everyone knows.

I do agree that raiding/defending ends up screwing the teaching of novices. How can that be avoided is another question. (Maybe the admin should insist volunters for novice trainers can't ever partake in a raid or defense no matter what happens.) I think I witnessed a potential newbie ur'Guard need help once and I couldn't find anybody and they were busy at the time. It's important for the new generation to be properly introduced--otherwise we could end up a dying breed when the next generation takes hold.

One thing I was thinking of doing, just for fun sometime, is maybe do some scheduled "Tully's Tour of the Towns". I'd hang out in Trader Bobs (a portal exit) ever other Saturday afternoon or evening at a specified set time, take all the novices on a walk through the basin for about an hour, show them some basic things, answer any questions, and teach them about various things, the various communities, etc. I was thinking of the old Paladin from Achaea's old training program.

This might be a fun thing to do.

I don't think banning players from PK is the way to go Phred.. I mean, I enjoy teaching my novices, but if it means my character is banned from defending I'd have to rethink it.

Since we're talking about ways to help more novices. how about giving secretaries and undersec's the guild skills priv, it's always been a complaint in the dancers at least that the priv is most useful for helping novices pick the right skills.. and it's given to GR8 (which by chance I just got) but which a majority of people who help out novices are not yet GR8.

I was a novice aide in Achaea for years. The biggest problem I had, was that after a while I had no fun when I logged in. For every cool novice we had, we had ten that were pricks. And I was expected to drop everything to teach.

I don't log in to work. And even when I did, when I was GM, I got to schedule my own work, instead of never knowing when I'd have to jump from whatever I was doing to run after a novice. That uncertainty can really kill your enjoyment, makes you not want to start anything you'd have to drop suddenly.

In addition, I'm impatient, and bad with people I have to teach things to. I love answering questions, but the majority of novices don't ask them, probably don't know what to ask. Those situations are taxing as hell, to me at least. I always end up piling too much on, I think, hoping not to miss anything.

My favorite interactions with novices were always discussing things with them during their interviews in the Sentinels, or when I give Shadowdancer novices tours of the Serenwilde and try to lure them to our side. These things are fun and enjoyable; teaching is not.

There is also little incentive. I did it as a Moondancer so the guild wouldn't get pissed. I do it in general because I know that the game needs it, but I've never felt like it's my job to train people to play the game. Whatever my role, at the core I'm a player, not an administrator. I even hate doing library card registrations at work, and I get paid for that. Explaining the same things over and over gets old very fast, especially when there is little interaction and it's mostly you telling someone something.

All that said, I do make a point of sending a tell to every novice I can see whenever I log on, asking them how their day is going and letting them know I'm available to help. I love to answer questions, and I love to help people, as long as I can do it without dropping whatever else I'm doing, and without feeling pressured into doing it. Also, it puts the burden on them to ask questions, instead of on me to guess what they need to know.

I just want to return to the issue of how to retain people who are familiar with MUDS and whom a large degree of help isn't required.

The newbie intro and Newton caverns do not showcase the things that make Lusternia different from other MUDs.

I asked a friend (who is a dragon in achaea) to try it - his comment was "why would I bother playing this, there are less guilds, less cities and very similar skills". It is hard to see how you could conclude much otherwise if you leveled to 20 in the caverns. By then of course many have simply dropped out and are off trying something else.

Therefore, the newbie phase should try and expose the players to many of the novel things about Lusternia.
Influencing must somehow be brought into it. Perhaps a few debates with a tweaked system so that the ego losses are reduced per round so they last long enough to get some fun out of it.

The newbies should definitely be able to catch an "aetherclipper" to a newbie island in the aetherspace, preferrably with a near miss encounter with an aether dragon or three.

Perhaps they could gain a small amount of experience from simply sitting in a stadium and watching some combats - you could set up say 3 or 4 duels to show off some of the nice afflictions and fighting styles we have here so they could think "hey I wanna be able to do THAT". Obviously they would only be able to get the experience from watching it once.

I am sure other people have things they love about Lusternia that makes them stay here instead of being elsewhere, and you should be trying to focus on exposing newbies to those things to get those with prior MUD exposure addicted!

I really like the Ialie's idea of getting those abilities for Mentor-student relations. I managed to make 3 novices stick to playing because of mentorship. Real newbies would really benefit if they have mentors. It makes them feel special that one person in this game is actually caring for them - this is what the newbie orientation and the novice orientation lacks. It doesn't make them feel welcome. It just makes them feel that they are in a different world, A different realm, a different game.

Making them know theres someone who will really take care for them and guide them will help them a lot, and possibly the swaying factor for them to play more.

Another suggestion I wasn't able to raise during my GA time in the Hartstone is to fully make use of our guildhalls. Honestly, we rarely go there anymore. I like what Elcyrion is trying to do to our guildhall. He wanted to integrate the whole structure so you can learn Hartstone's history if you reach out and touch parts of our guildhall. It will teach them not only about the guild, but the commune and the history of the basin as well. If every guildhall has some function like this, something that would help newbies learn more in their free time, it will help them a lot. And, in my opinion, it will justify the existance of guildhalls since the way I see it, its just a place where manseless people would go to hide or to train for their guildskills.

Mentors are difficult to get though if youre not loud or outgoing. Even asking how you get one doesnt earn any real answer. I dont see why guilds have it as a mentor should be someone you know and respect, theyre novices. Not many are going to go running up to people, greet them, talk with them and have respect exhanged by both.