I love having protege's, but I've only ever hd a handful in my time. I've actually found that a lot of novices don't want a mentor *shrug*.

I hate having proteges who disappear a day later and stick on your list forever and a half.

Actually, the Newton Caves are GREAT for influencing, since you can beat the finks/gnomes in a single hit with Begging, which is the 0% inept skill in Influence. It's much more effective than kicking or punching. The problem with it? Unless a guild teacher tells the newbie about it, they have no way of knowing it exists.

During the newbie intro, it would be nice if one of the fates said a bit about influencing, and then said, "I have this health potion (or some such) for you, but I'm not sure you'll need it. Well, maybe if you ask nicely..." and then have a bit of help text explaining how to beg from a denizen.

You raise some good points. The tour, as-is, feels bland, especially to people who have played other MUDs, particularly other IRE MUDs. It ought to show off the things that make Lusternia unique, like power, aetherships, planar travel, etc. Maybe part of it could have you link to a nexus on Shallamar. As for combat, there could be pre-rendered duels that the newbies can watch that show some basic tactics and some of the cooler skills (like inquisition, toadcurse, etc).

The biggest problem I have with mentoring people is that I tend to help everyone out that I can, and bug people to see how they're doing anyway when I have the time. Asking to be someone's mentor feels too much then like I'm asking for selfish reasons (ie: the mentor bonus if they buy credits) when that isn't the case. So, I just help as if I'm someone's mentor regardless of actuality.

Last night, after it first came up on this thread pages and pages ago, Zenji and I were keeping watch for awhile until Shinnyo (level 1, so didn't go through the tutorial) used GNT so we could see if we could hear. Zenji was on Ethereal and didn't hear what she said when I finally asked if he'd heard her (I was on Prime).


Granted, this can't happen 24/7 because I and the others who do so are sadly mortal and limited in our ability to remain awake and glued to our computers, but at least very often when a novice is getting close to the tower or has reached it, we'll ask on GT who's available to teach them. If some of the responses (assuming we get responses) are "I don't know how to" we point out ghelps we have specifically to assist people in teaching. When there's that kind of a response, I also personally send people who claim not to know how to teach a novice what they need a tell that goes something like this: "have them learn the required lessons (65 Nature, 55 Totems, 25 Planar), explain how to use their talisman to hunt and (if you're up to it) a few other useful abilities of what they'll learn, have them read GHELP SEEKERRULES and make sure they understand it, make sure they know how to use GNT or TELLs to ask questions and encourage them to do so at any point, and see if they have any questions for the time being. If you get stuck or need help, let me know."

Back to the point, we ask and encourage others to teach. We've had at least a few news posts over the past few months specifically about the need to teach novices (offhand, I recall at least one by Laysus and one by Quenoi). Perceptions that we're somehow not encouraging everyone to teach seriously boggle my mind (when most times it's felt like we've been doing everything other than beating people up to try getting them to do so).


Yessss.

I'm talking about the many times I was ordered to leave the newbies along because I wasn't a moondust guide and the specific time a guide yelled at me for interferring with his training because the newbie had logged out in the middle of training and I talked to her when she logged back in.

I don't routinely log my play, so I can't name names - even if I wanted to - but these things happened. They were part of the reason I decided that the guild wasn't the guild I'd joined when I came to Lusternia anymore.

After being told to stay away, I assumed the calls of GT of "is there anyone available to teach" were aimed at moondust guides exclusively.

Rhosyn

Well, I assume it was one very confused moondancer who didn't know what they were talking about, because offically it's been 'everyone should help' since -at least- the opening of glomdoring in my memory and the memory of others in the guild.

Whoever told that to you needs a bit of a talking to. It's a shame you didn't log it or ask one of the leaderhsip about it at the time. Sorry you had a bad experience .

But newbies have no use for power. Maybe they should be given one? A novice only skill that heals them for the cost of some power? With dross, it could be really nice to let them have a 6p full heal skill or something.


And major aspects of combat, like demesnes and covens. It would be awesome if the newbie could be swept away by a memory of the Taint Wars while wandering through Shallamar - the orcish army attacking the Ackleberry and carrying away Gib, the undead marching on Old Celest, using real skills from the game.

I'm still not sure how you can expect everyone to just jump in, even if they only recently graduated themselves, and teach someone else. I've played since open beta, and I'm bad at it. How can you expect someone to just run over and teach with nothing but a ghelp for training in how to do it?

If you want everyone capable of teaching, SHOW THEM HOW. Take them along and have them watch you give an orientation. Most people only ever see their own, which is not the time to learn how to do it. If people had said "Here, come watch me intro this novice" a time or two, I'd have felt comfortable teaching on my own. I definitely don't feel comfortable teaching when someone volunteers me for it and says "oh, read this ghelp".

I say that almost every single time I teach a novice, and it's really not that hard really.. a scroll is all any Lusternian player needs, if even that. They learn their skills, you tell them how to use their skills, you answer any questions that pop into their heads because of what you've said, you warn them against certain things that are guild related.. and it's pretty much over, the length depends highly on how many additional questions they have, and what else they want to know about, which sometimes is nothing, and sometimes is a lot.

This whole "but I can't" is less of that and more of "but I won't" either because people view themselves as being 'above that', because they have better things to do. The answer is no, you don't have better things to do, teach the darn novices.

I'd give this piece of advice to fanatical guild admins.

Forcing everyone in the guild to do guide work might increase newbie retention rate, but it -drastically- lowers the established player retention rate. Decide which is more important.

Not guide work, but even the most combat minded, elitist person -if- there is no one else around at the time, can take the time to point out a few things to a novice.

Yes, a five minute GNT speil... read this, read this, learn this, ask questions, bye is better than nothing. Sure.

But I meant more the guilds that have taken to DEMANDING everyone go spend upwards of a half hour with newbies whenever they are online to teach them basics. If you choose to be an undersec, that's a reasonable expectation. If you're not, then you are choosing not to take on that role in the guild.

We don't demand that every regular player design at least one room a day or face being labelled the reason Lusternia is not succeeding, and being disfavoured and punished by your guild.

QFT

Also, "but I can't" oftentimes is just that. Most people don't have the confidence to sit down and teach without any help or training. Especially if they're not an established player, and are just a random gr1 who gets volunteered for it and just graduated two days ago or something.

Also, I DO have better things to do. I love having new people, making Lusternia popular and spreading it to everyone. But the reason I play this game is to have fun, and if I'm forced to stop what I'm doing and teach all the time, I'm far less likely to be having fun, and because of that, far less likely to log in and play. Some people like teaching novices, some hate it. Most would do it now and then, but get burnt out. And many get stuck doing it because there are no undersecs (the ones who should always be doing it if they are around) around and they're the only ones willing. That's a quick road to burnout.

Finally, what the hell is up with guilds having three or four undersecs? People might not all have the drive to devote themselves to novices like the job requires, but if there are more of them, the work is spread out. Undersec isn't a job you can log in and get done, it's a job you have to have around all the time. It is never done. Three is not nearly enough.

That's not what is being argued here though, what is being argued is that people don't like teaching novices, so they just choose to ignore them.

Yes, people get burnt out, but if -more- people are helping then no one will burn out.

No, there're two separate issues.

Answering the occasional question is something anyone can and should do when they are able, I think that is what this thread is about. Forcing everyone to be a novice aide is going too far.

Either everyone helps out, or we'll continue to have novices not getting trained, it's one or the other. Unless the admin change something in the current system.

If you compare ratio of active Blacktalon to active Moondancers, we have more undersecs than you do!