If you beckon someone out of a commune or city, you are breaking the rules.

If you beckon someone out of the nexus room on Ethereal, Elemental or Cosmic planes, you are breaking the rules.

The whole point of the system, which I thought was quite obvious, is that you cannot make someone suffer increased experience loss by shifting them against their will into enemy territory, and you cannot remove organizational-conglutination by forcing someone to leave their home territory. Avenger protection and loopholes are a side issue.

If the admin want to make a new official statement of policy, then we'll consider it changed. Until then, no matter how often you have broken the rules in the past, or what individual gods have said, this is the only recognizable guideline that matters.

The admin have since clarified that beckoning people out of home territory is legal. Kalodan issued me for it a while ago and the issue was dropped. Let me find it and I'll post it in a minute.

Wrong. This policy has changed and that post is out-of-date.

Hmm, I'm not sure that is what I was talking about.

Unless you mean beckoning people out of their home territory?

Here we go.

Message #2289 Sent by: Kalodan
07/02 23:58 "The voices of the Oneiroi tell you, "We will attempt to post a
clarification on summoning policy shortly, however, in the meantime, the only
rules relating to this issue is that you can not beckon someone in to enemy
territory, unless theywere in enemy territory to begin with." Question
answered! "

EDIT: Yeah, I meant you can beckon people out of home territory. Edited.

Consistency would be nice :/

Why the change, and why isn't it official? It seems to me the current policy included that clause for good reason - you cannot force someone who would ordinarily conglutinate normally to pray.

I hope that when the update policy is posted, we don't lose summoning shields.

Your sig is way tooo wide... fix that please

Bah. Decreased the awesomeness (some MIGHT call it width) of my signature. Fine, fine.

Oh had to reload.. don't mind me. Carry on!

you also missed the point that none of the rules apply when not on prime! so you can pull into or out of guards as much as you like on ethereal celestia or nil etc

Where is everyone hearing that the rules don't apply off prime? I'm just curious. Avenger rules don't, but I don't think this is classified as an Avenger rule. Show me and I'll be content?


EDIT: One more question!

Does this apply to two different enemy territories? E.g. you're an enemy of both Kelpies and Celest and in the Inner Sea. Someone then beckons you into Celest. You were already in enemy territory, but it was to another enemy. Would that count?

Beckon is a bit annoying anyway, especially now that wisp and demesne summoned were removed. I don't have a big problem with the ability in and of itself, but if Guardians are going to have a summon ability, while nobody else has access to one, it should at the very least be easier to resist, and issues like this should be checked out. No other class (to my knowledge) is able to enact a strategy even remotely close to this, and the only real way to defend against it is to stay sitting down (i.e. do nothing), or double-block, which is a pain and requires a larger group.

All of that being said, it doesn't seem quite right that beckoning is legal in these situations, when planar summon would be impossible and, if somehow successfully used, would be considered illegal.

Planar summon isn't illegal. There are NO RULES off-prime.

And beckoning is SO EASY to stop. Just learn to counter it. We learned to counter it on Nil raids when we have no angels and so only Mag can beckon; they learned to counter it on Celestia raids when they have no demons and only we can beckon. It's really not that hard. If you have a decent-sized group you should have more than enough people to double block.

Even on Celestia when people are being moved randomly (into guards) from currents and whirlpool?

Try, y'know, breaking the demesne next time.

Okay, sure, but where does it say the rules don't apply off prime? No one's paid any attention to my questions.

We did, we couldnt.

It's breakable, trust me.

Wisp was incredibly easy to stop as well.


I'm going to make the same point I did about the 'no rules' belief in another thread. The rules regarding summoning only exist partially because of the Avenger system.

More importantly, enemy territory and home territory have variable experience loss on death. You cannot shift someone outside of home territory because you are changing their accepted risk for a single death. You cannot summon someone into enemy territory because you are changing their accepted risk for a single death. Guards are another problem as well.

Avenger and suspect rules do not apply on the planes. That's fine, because Avenger justice isn't there at all. There's nothing that can be exploited.

This is NOT true of home and enemy territory, on the other hand. Both DO exist on the planes, and it is possible to exploit the system to cause increased experience loss by shifting someone between them. Again, if the desired outcome is no rules about territories on the planes, REMOVE ALL TERRITORY BUT NEUTRAL.

If there are going to be home and enemy regions, then the system must be policed. It should not be gameable to allow the aggressor to influence the amount of experience a victim will lose. As far as I know, there are no skills in any IRE game that afflict the victim with increased experience loss. The only one that comes close is vitae-stripping skills, and thankfully there are no longer any of those around (at least in Lusternia).