Healing Scrolls

by Narsrim

Back to Common Grounds.

Narsrim2006-09-06 03:28:28
QUOTE(Avaer @ Sep 5 2006, 10:30 PM) 328362

Good point, although I'm not sure it really changes the end result... but if we add attacks at 0 seconds we get (hoping that my arithmetic holds up)

4 cudgels (12 seconds) - no other active skills

~ 2520 health damage
~ 1800 mana damage

Total: 4320 damage

4 nature curses (12 seconds) - no other active skills

3200 health damage

Total: 3200 damage

12 seconds (3 mindblast) - 4 uses of another psionic channel, 2 use of a third

3000 health damage
2700 mana damage
2700 ego damage

Total: 8400 damage + other active skills


This is a moot argument for many reasons.

1. Druids have Sap. The reason cudgel doesn't do that much damage is because Sap is very powerful given it provides superb hindering that will not allow the target (if they have any hope to cure it) to heal. There is nothing like this in Aquamancy or Geomancy. The only possible hinderances to sipping that Telepathic mages have is 1.0 second stun every 10 seconds in a demesne and stupidity.

2. Mindblast opperates on a 6.0 second timer. If at any point you feel the damage is stacking, you can move after a mindblast and the mage CANNOT follow for -6- seconds. This essentially makes it impossible to track a target who wishes to run if you count on using mindblast.

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As it stands, druids can easily kill someone with cudgel. They just have to get a sap-lock, which as Munsia proved countless, is not difficult to do when you have abilities like treebane, stagstomp, passive/active confusion/impatience (which prevents concentrating after stagstomp or focusing body after paralyse), blackout (memoryloss embedded), berserk morphite (double sleep), etc.

Telepaths cannot easily kill anyone, even in a demesne, when they can out pace mindblast with berry/scroll/sip. It is the absolute make/break skill in the skillset. While I find being a Telepath enjoyable at times, I will likely change back to Telekinesis because two charbydon daggers stacks better afflictions than Telepathy... and Heartburst is easier to pull off than Mindburst with healing scrolls. Not to mention you have useful abilities like Magnetize (which owns warriors), Barrier, Forcefield, etc.

I hear this constant complaining about Psionics from druids. It makes me ill. I would much prefer never ever in any circumstance having to worry about losing experience (note I lose 5% on a vitae death in Dairuchi, which takes me 2-3 hours of bashing to recover ) loss with transmigrate, and the insane potential of smudges and a fetish to throw in some quick berserk afflictions here and there.

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I also think your tests are flawed because nature curse does like 400 damage to me at most, which given you should have all the magic resistances I do up at any given time, I have no idea how you take 800 per.
Xavius2006-09-06 03:44:33
QUOTE(Narsrim @ Sep 5 2006, 10:28 PM) 328391

I hear this constant complaining about Psionics from druids. It makes me ill. I would much prefer never ever in any circumstance having to worry about losing experience (note I lose 5% on a vitae death in Dairuchi, which takes me 2-3 hours of bashing to recover ) loss with transmigrate, and the insane potential of smudges and a fetish to throw in some quick berserk afflictions here and there.


I'll give you a chance to rescind this before I start quoting you.

Ecology is stronger than telepathy in defensive terms, yes. I don't think anyone's going to question that. However, ecology is seriously lacking in kill conditions. Even your earlier provided examples in this thread focus on group-on-group combat. All demesne holders have scary tactics in that regard. In your own posts (as a Seren), you were quite quick to admit that ecology's offensive potential is the lowest of all demesne specs.
Unknown2006-09-06 05:00:27
QUOTE(Narsrim @ Sep 6 2006, 03:28 AM) 328391

I also think your tests are flawed because nature curse does like 400 damage to me at most, which given you should have all the magic resistances I do up at any given time, I have no idea how you take 800 per.


QUOTE

You are in complete control of your waking mind.
You have skin covered in treebark.
You are rooted.
You have the hide of the stag protecting your body.
You have empowered your blue chakra.
The pull of the earth roots you more firmly to the ground.
Your vision is heightened to see in the dark.
You are lipreading to overcome deafness.
You have ingested the kafe bean and are feeling extremely energetic.
Your mind is sensing the death of others.
You are viewing the world through the third eye.
Your sense of time is heightened, and your reactions are speeded.
You are protected by 12 defences.

SPIRITS:
The spirit of squirrel grants you the ability to forage.
The spirit of skunk grants you the dubious gift of stink.
Make others flee with the power of the spirit of crow.
Burrow through the ground with the spirit of groundhog.
You gain the ability to trueswim and breathe underwater by the spirit of trout.
The spirit of bear grants you great strength.
Run free and fast like the spirit of stag.
The spirit of monkey grants you the ability to move about the trees.
Leap over obstacles by virtue of the spirit of horse.
Find courage within yourself by the spirit of wolf.
Under the night sky, your mana replenishes, a gift from the spirit of the moon.
Resist venoms by virtue of the spirit of snake.

You are wielding a golden sickle in your left hand and a mystic cudgel in your right hand.
You are holding:
a soot-blackened tinderbox, a striated jade and emerald wand, 3 delicate dreamcatchers, a personal
journal, 3 pearl vials, 2 powerplex jewels, a sacred ring of the ravenwood, 32 diamond vials, a
garnet vial, 2 emerald vials, 5 pulsating motes, 3 moonstone vials, an elegant willow wand, a
forestal pipe, a lunar pipe, a Wand of Fire, 5 gleaming motes, 2 twinkling motes, 2 jittering motes,
a floral pipe, 6 bobbing motes, 14 flickering motes, a perfect gemstone, a gem of cloaking, an
algontherine whistle, a bloodstone vial, a transplanar cubix, 2 bluetints in 2 groups, a
magically-preserved letter.
You are wearing:
a moonflower, a runic gold promise ring, a golden oak tree brooch, a wide banded silver promise ring
, a circlet of silvered leaves, a pair of bracers of midnight blue, traced with silver scrollwork, a
Brooch of the Tempest, 3 pocketbelts, a parafilament purse, a pair of Winged Sandals of Haste, a
shimmering truesilver necklace, a silver torc, soft deep green robes.
You have 58 types of items in the Rift.
You possess 114 items and are carrying no gold.

It offers the following defences:
Physical cutting: 56
Physical blunt: 44
Armour Status: 100
Soft deep green robes has no poisons or magical effects on it.

When the robes were not magic-proofed...
QUOTE

3626h, 4942m, 5497e, 10p, 15385en, 22633w xk<>-
You have recovered equilibrium.

Making a slashing motion towards you with his golden sickle, Elryn curses you for your
transgressions. Painful, stigmatic wounds open up all over your body, dripping with blood.
2844h, 4870m, 5497e, 10p, 15370en, 22650w xk<>-<57:171>


When I got them proofed
QUOTE

3626h, 5230m, 5497e, 10p, 15385en, 22675w exk<>-<38:375>

Making a slashing motion towards you with his golden sickle, Elryn curses you for your
transgressions. Painful, stigmatic wounds open up all over your body, dripping with blood.
2923h, 5158m, 5497e, 10p, 15370en, 22650w xk<>-<48:859>


Note I have a great rune of arcane force, 17 int, and trans magic. As I said, I overestimated all druidry attacks (I imagine there are people with 18,19 int who do more), so 800 seemed reasonable.

I then underestimated mindblast attacks so that the differences would be as low as possible.

I don't see why the tests are flawed.
Icarus2006-09-06 05:22:32
blink.gif

Never knew healing scrolls are so useful. Thought they need eq to read or something.

But then why is it that I can't read a disruption scroll to a deaf person, but I can read a healing scroll and heal myself while deaf?
Sylphas2006-09-06 05:29:13
You're really comparing berserk fetish to telepathy, and doing it favorably? Masked afflictions with no power cost vs unmasked, shruggable afflictions that cost two power? blink.gif
Unknown2006-09-06 05:56:15
QUOTE(Sylphas @ Sep 6 2006, 05:29 AM) 328421

You're really comparing berserk fetish to telepathy, and doing it favorably? Masked afflictions with no power cost vs unmasked, shruggable afflictions that cost two power? blink.gif

And don't forget that a majority of the useful ones require harvesting inside hostile territories. wink.gif
Terenas2006-09-06 06:05:16
QUOTE(Icarus @ Sep 6 2006, 05:22 AM) 328419

But then why is it that I can't read a disruption scroll to a deaf person, but I can read a healing scroll and heal myself while deaf?

You don't need to be able to hear to read to youself and comprehend.
silimaur2006-09-06 06:23:32
nars though i actually agree with alot of what youve said...i cant understand why you would say: "Telepaths cannot easily kill anyone, even in a demesne" (cant be bothered to use quotes) i find this simply untrue as out of a demense the telepath would still havea fair chance at hurting your opponentwith just the mindblast and two afflictions inside a demense it is still as effective as before it just means that now it will take slightly more skill to kill with mindblast unlike previously when you could just mindblast over and over to kill.

i dont think this change has made mindblast any less powerful just means that the mage now has to think when using it
Ekard2006-09-06 06:44:59
QUOTE(Fallen @ Sep 5 2006, 09:14 PM) 328153

However, while Glom sells sparklies for 30, the cube recharges cost is about 40 average, so I suppose it balances out tongue.gif


I need to shop for sparkles in Glom and you need to come for enchantments to Celest tongue.gif
We have charges around 30gp.

QUOTE(Fallen @ Sep 5 2006, 09:20 PM) 328160

Except I don't think you actually need an enchanter for them.

Bookbinders make the Healing scrolls, and they start out with 1 charge already, if I remember correctly, so you could technically have a commune bookbinder make them and then go find a cube.

But I haven't been a bookbinder for a long time, so my information might be off.

Thats true.

QUOTE(Shamarah @ Sep 5 2006, 09:29 PM) 328172

All scrolls start with 1 charge and can be charged by an enchanter or cube up to 50 charges. If it hits 0 charges, it bursts into flame and vanishes. I'm not kidding.

I hope admins will change it that scrolls wont decay when hit 0 charges.
Or you need to probe scroll before reading it and make sure you wont hit 0 charges or just keep tracking of how many charges is left on scroll.
Gelo2006-09-06 06:49:34
My first scroll bursted in flames before me while I stood there, jaw dropped, staring at it in disbelief. I tried testing it after purchasing it from a bookbinder. Poor me. sad.gif
Revan2006-09-06 17:36:08
Mindblast was perfect before this healing scroll change. The mage -did- have to think to kill people. Any idiot who died to mindblast a week ago either had horrible curing or just doesn't fight. Granted when it FIRST got boosted, it was insane. However, you guys not only have this new healing scroll boost, you ALSO have performance which gives yet another boost. Mindblast is 100% useless now. It's easier to just staff people and wish for the best. I wish you guys would understand, but I guess the fact that you guys say "well, he can't kill me with it, so... I'll say he has to think!" kind of shows how openminded you are. Then again, you all suffer from "grass is greener" syndrome. I suppose I'll see what I can do with this new nerf, but I don't have any high hopes... plus the fact I hear psionics will be getting nerfed further. It's starting to look alot like runes tongue.gif
Sylphas2006-09-06 21:18:13
It's easier to staff people? If you can heal mindblast, you can easily heal staff, since it does about a third of the damage.
silimaur2006-09-06 21:36:54
revan thats totally wrong on all levels as before i couldnt keep up with mindblast with scroll and sparkles, i was still eventually dead whether from ego or just health

secondly ill point how you can be smart to stop the only thing that actually is "ruining" mindblast for you.

read healing to
mindblast
afflict
afflict

there you go they now cant read healing to themself as you have knocked there heal scroll balance off and they are now worse off then before the upgrade when people ignored them reading the scroll, also it costs you nothing but one scroll charge to do.
Sylphas2006-09-06 21:46:30
That works for the first hit. After that you'll just be healing them.
Revan2006-09-06 22:42:02
That's the most ignorant thing I have ever heard in my life.... why in the nine hells would you heal your opponent? Yes, it takes them off scroll balance, but that totally defeats the purpose. Sylphas, staff does about 1100 health, mindblast does 1100 health... it's the same damage, only difference is that it's across the board.

But anyway, you are missing the main problem: How the hell does mindblast kill you if you can cure it 100% all the time? it's like trying to kill someone with kick now... you just cannot keep up the damage. "afflictions, revan!!" Yes, our deadly masked afflictions that can be cured in half a nano-second if you take a single moment to diagnose. Don't over-rate telepathy, it's not as godly as you think it is, and now that mindblast is useless for the second time in its history, I just don't see a reason to fear it at all anymore. I'd be more afraid of a dreamweaver if I were you. Or hell, a druid tongue.gif
Geb2006-09-06 23:02:29
QUOTE(Revan @ Sep 6 2006, 11:42 PM) 328618

That's the most ignorant thing I have ever heard in my life.... why in the nine hells would you heal your opponent? Yes, it takes them off scroll balance, but that totally defeats the purpose. Sylphas, staff does about 1100 health, mindblast does 1100 health... it's the same damage, only difference is that it's across the board.

But anyway, you are missing the main problem: How the hell does mindblast kill you if you can cure it 100% all the time? it's like trying to kill someone with kick now... you just cannot keep up the damage. "afflictions, revan!!" Yes, our deadly masked afflictions that can be cured in half a nano-second if you take a single moment to diagnose. Don't over-rate telepathy, it's not as godly as you think it is, and now that mindblast is useless for the second time in its history, I just don't see a reason to fear it at all anymore. I'd be more afraid of a dreamweaver if I were you. Or hell, a druid tongue.gif


Revan, when Mindblast was insane you would not admit it. Now I see you are admitting it after the fact. So I do not think you have any moral high ground when it comes to talking about people being biased.

Mindblast is still better than what it was before the speed increase (remember it use to be on an 8 second recovery, making any mage who use it soulless fodder). It is also very good in a Geo-demesne, which still generates quite a bit of damage on its own. With the effective use of Dramatics and Debating, a Telepath can still be one of the most feared mages around.

Oh, and 1100 health from a staffcast is not equal to 1100 damage to health, mana, and ego. The person still has to effectively juggle his healing to keep up, or find himself either killed by the combination of demesne, Phantoms, and Mindblast or by the half-ego Mindburst insta-kill. In a properly aligned Geo-demesne it is still quite possible to kill the average person with Mindblast alone. Against the better healers, you will have to just be more creative.
Revan2006-09-06 23:19:35
Whatever, I guess we'll see what happens when I come back.
Sylphas2006-09-06 23:23:25
Also, don't discount the mana damage. It's not a high priority, but if you let it go it can be very annoying.
Nico2006-09-06 23:30:39
QUOTE(Revan @ Sep 6 2006, 07:19 PM) 328635

Whatever, I guess we'll see what happens when I come back.



When is that anyways? Mag needs some more good mages.

Not that I'm complaing biggrin.gif
Unknown2006-09-07 00:24:29
Not to mention that healing scrolls are % based, so if you have damage to health, mana, and ego, it will heal less of all of them than it would if you were just dealing the damage to a single one. Unless i'm mistaken in how the scroll works.