Daganev2007-01-15 18:35:15
I believe if you just avoid passive voice you won't run into the problem.
(I always get passive voice errors when I write things)
(I always get passive voice errors when I write things)
Noola2007-01-15 18:39:44
QUOTE(daganev @ Jan 15 2007, 12:35 PM) 373660
(I always get passive voice errors when I write things)
I do too! And it sucks cause the 'recommended change' always sounds like complete crap to me. I like the way passive voice sounds! Maybe it's not as 'interesting' or whatever to the reader, but I like it.
Shorlen2007-01-15 21:58:54
Yeah, I'm pretty sure Daganev is right, that if you avoid passive voice, it won't be a problem. Since passive voice is considered bad grammar anyway in most situations, learning to avoid it will help you in writing things in general.
(And yes, what I did in the previous sentence was intentional.)
(And yes, what I did in the previous sentence was intentional.)
Sior2007-01-16 15:09:12
QUOTE(Jasper @ Jan 14 2007, 11:17 PM) 373450
No. Never.
Aiakon2007-01-16 15:12:24
QUOTE(Shorlen @ Jan 15 2007, 09:58 PM) 373718
...Since passive voice is considered bad grammar anyway in most situations...
And I have never understood why... it's one of the things that most annoys me about Microsoft Word - that it constantly attempts to tell me what is and what isn't good style.
Elysiana2007-01-16 15:25:24
QUOTE(Aiakon @ Jan 16 2007, 07:12 AM) 374018
And I have never understood why... it's one of the things that most annoys me about Microsoft Word - that it constantly attempts to tell me what is and what isn't good style.
Passive voice isn't precisely bad style, but active voice is almost always a stronger way to make your point. It's, well, boring, and doesn't hold attention as effectively. Besides, you can usually load active voice verb choices with connotations, and turn a perfectly innocent statement into a loaded jibe at someone! I'd provide examples, but I just woke up, and they're not coming to mind readily.
Unknown2007-01-16 15:37:44
QUOTE(Elysiana @ Jan 16 2007, 09:25 AM) 374019
Passive voice isn't precisely bad style, but active voice is almost always a stronger way to make your point. It's, well, boring, and doesn't hold attention as effectively. Besides, you can usually load active voice verb choices with connotations, and turn a perfectly innocent statement into a loaded jibe at someone! I'd provide examples, but I just woke up, and they're not coming to mind readily.
Interestingly enough, the only real way for any of us to talk about this topic is to use passive voice and state-of-being verbs, both of which are relatively boring to the reader and should be eliminated when posible.
What's the solution? Don't participate in conversations that are doomed to descend into the pit of boredom.
I am, of course, an english nazi (it's what I get for having an english teacher for a mom), and even I avoid the conversations at all cost, other than to point out to people when they are wrong, then run before they can ask why.
Aiakon2007-01-16 16:06:31
QUOTE(Elysiana @ Jan 16 2007, 03:25 PM) 374019
Passive voice isn't precisely bad style, but active voice is almost always a stronger way to make your point. It's, well, boring, and doesn't hold attention as effectively. Besides, you can usually load active voice verb choices with connotations, and turn a perfectly innocent statement into a loaded jibe at someone! I'd provide examples, but I just woke up, and they're not coming to mind readily.
I don't entirely see why you cannot load passive voice verb choice with 'connotations' too... but in any case, it was this I objected to: "since passive voice is considered bad grammar anyway in most situations, learning to avoid it will help you in writing things in general". I remember being taught by a man who would furiously cross out any use of the passive voice in essays, and I found it deeply irritating. The passive is often a useful tool, and besides, the best way to perfect a good writing style is not by the observance of proscriptive rules, but by reading and writing for yourself.
Unknown2007-01-16 17:04:43
QUOTE
I don't entirely see why you cannot load passive voice verb choice with 'connotations' too... but in any case, it was this I objected to: "since passive voice is considered bad grammar anyway in most situations, learning to avoid it will help you in writing things in general". I remember being taught by a man who would furiously cross out any use of the passive voice in essays, and I found it deeply irritating. The passive is often a useful tool, and besides, the best way to perfect a good writing style is not by the observance of proscriptive rules, but by reading and writing for yourself.
That's just the point. English teachers grind good practice into you, but all of the best writers just learn when to break all of the rules for effect. Like you said, passive voice can be useful and powerful for different effects at different times, but you can't get away with it in school, mainly because most teachers want to make sure everyone recognizes when they're using it, so they don't get entire essays in passive voice.
Vix2007-01-16 22:15:21
QUOTE(mitbulls @ Jan 16 2007, 09:37 AM) 374021
I am, of course, an e English nazi (it's what I get for having an e English teacher for a mom), and even I avoid the conversations at all cost, other than to point out to people when they are wrong, then run before they can ask why.
Sorry. You set yourself up for that one.
Kaalak2007-01-17 04:03:20
Excellent! Thank you Sior!
Tzekelkan2007-01-21 12:04:30
This is not currently possible, but it would be awesome if you could add the name commands in 'say emoting' as well. For example, I can't do this (but I'd love to):
say (Looking directly into ^sheia's eyes) I've missed you.
Others would see: Looking directly into Sheia's eyes, Father Tzekelkan Silverwing says, "I've missed you."
While she would see: Looking directly into your eyes, Father Tzekelkan Silverwing says, "I've missed you."
I don't know how hard it is to code such things; but I do know the current system is the most absolutely splendid emoting potentiality for RP, ever. I would adore to be able to add names into my says (without the 'say to' command).
say (Looking directly into ^sheia's eyes) I've missed you.
Others would see: Looking directly into Sheia's eyes, Father Tzekelkan Silverwing says, "I've missed you."
While she would see: Looking directly into your eyes, Father Tzekelkan Silverwing says, "I've missed you."
I don't know how hard it is to code such things; but I do know the current system is the most absolutely splendid emoting potentiality for RP, ever. I would adore to be able to add names into my says (without the 'say to' command).