This has been on my mind for a while now so I thought I'd bring it up here to see what people could come up with.

I'm not thrilled with the training programs that I've seen in pretty much any guild ever. That includes Achaea too since the programs here are virtually the same as most of theirs. They all seem to be pretty cookie-cutterish.

Its basically the novice joins and gets oriented, has 2.5 stages til advancement, graduates, maybe has a choice of different program branches at this point but maybe not, continues doing tasks until at some point the program boots her out at which point she may or may not be a good guild member.

Some guilds do just fine with minor variations on that template. Other guilds are mediocre at it and some are not good at all. I realise that it can work well for some people but I want to see what other options could be employed.

So what have you all got? Let's hear some quality, new ideas for how to educate and equip guild members.

I don't think any method exists that does not require lots of time from the trainer.

I despise forked training paths. Those being the fighter (someone who actually wants to use their guildskills), scholar (someone who can be assed to actually think about their RP), and supporter (someone who gives a damn about the guild and the other people in it) roles.

If a guild wants to give RP customization to their characters, I think it should be based around purely aesthetic characteristics (that was my intent behind the Conclaves of the Moondancers - different groups with different themes, but not terribly different duties - although I don't know if that has been abandoned). Otherwise certain inherent characteristics to each guild get ignored and forgotten. For example, Hartstone is supposed to be a scholarly group of Serenwilde - if you're not in a scholar path, what the hell are you doing in the guild? Ur'guard are supposed to be the warriors of Magnagora, if you're not in a fighter path, why the hell did you choose a warrior class?

I much, much, much prefer either a single heirarchy of goals with enough flexibility to allow any desired focus, or mentor-type advancement that is solely dependent on elder players choosing one or two apprentices, and should they complete their short apprenticeship to the mentor's standards they increase in rank (and then take a new apprenticeship to continue).

Of course, whenever I have attempted to design advancement systems before people find them too intimidating or unnecessarily complicated and unwieldy, so I can't really offer much that is useful, I'm afraid.

With Hartstone, I would personally like to see more emphasis on group discussion and thoughtful debate being valued, rather than monotonous physical tasks alone. I did try for that with the Stag path when asked, and with the Gatherings, but I don't think I was very good at making them work (especially since more than two other people in the room make me nervous and auto activate hermit defence nine-alpha ).

Interesting, I tried that in the ebonguard.

either the population was too low, or nobody wanted to be connected to a spirit other than Night, Crow, Wolf or bear.

Interesting, I tried that in the ebonguard.

either the population was too low, or nobody wanted to be connected to a spirit other than Night, Crow, Wolf or bear.

I felt much the same way about the forked paths but didn't have the words to articulate my distaste.



Pfft. If you posted complicated and unwieldy ideas they could easily be broken down by others. Let's see what you've got!




I don't like thoughtful debates. They're rarely thoughtful and they're rarely good for tempers when dealing with larger groups. Plus in a mud a discussion takes a long time to get through. I wouldn't mind seeing issues 'debated' through books though. Then its more on your own timeframe and you have ample time and space to include details to strengthen your point. Of course, its a wild idea to think that any books are going to be on our shelf soon

EDIT



Elaborate a bit more on what you tried to implement?

Each spirit in totems that also had a guildrank had a house.

the house was basically a group of people who found what that spirit represented to be a good thing.

For example.. Squirrel was about people who like to hoard things. wolf was about fearless attacks, Bear was about strength and bashing, Groundhog was about being an isolationist, etc etc,

People either didn't join a house, or chose wolf or bear, or tree (for teaching novies)

Part of the problem was that we had too many leaders (I think we had 14 houses) and nobody to join the house save the ones I mentioned.

That's an interesting set up. What were some of the the things the leader of a house would do? Were leaders of houses necessary or do you think it would have been better to put whatever authority/responsibility the house leaders had into the hands of a few secretaries? How did you or would you handle someone who thought that the totem animal wasn't supposed to be like that, i.e. maybe they thought groundhog should be about exploring? Oh, and was there any reason why they'd pick those houses in particular?

What the spirits represented were what they represented for the warriors, and were also what the tasks that gave them GFs asked them to do.

It was there for anyone who wanted to learn more about a spirit, or get more involved in it. The leader of the house was suppose to have access to information about that spirit that nobody else held.

All in all, it was too much RP for most warriors, and too vague, as well as too many options. Also, people thought you could only be in one house, which confused the matter also.

Advancement tasks to get out of novicehood should concentrate on -basic- knowledge, something that someone completely new to muds can pick up, but which will be helpful to them.

Programs centered on getting people from GR1 - GR3 should be about expanding their knowledge past a basic level, and integrating the unique flavor of the guild RP into the tasks.

Any programs extending beyond that, in my mind are just tedious and a waste.

"write another 5 essays on why you like trees" "explain for the 15th time, just WHY you like the light, what the light is, what the core nature of the light is, just how the light is good, what good is, how good is always good" *has Achaea Priest flashbacks*

Exactly why I became a Sentaari...

Priests were insane.... I think that guild was run by people who liked homework in school

I was only a Priest during Anarchaea so I could whore judge at a totem south of NoT. And then now after autoclass, so I can bless people when I pop on at random. (I liked Jester, but kicking rats to get 500 gold when your blackjack decays is crazy.) The guild itself was just icky.

I think the way we have it is fine for now, the whole time bit. Never really felt motivated enough to do Achaea's Novice Programs, especially since it was harder to level up I found. Imperians was a bit better, but Lusternias still the best because it offers choice of waiting out the time and eventually graduating where youll put the effort in further, or doing the tasks and graduating sooner.

If you want to change them around, change the tasks needed to advance but keep 'em simple.

Dont really like some of Hartstones paths, but I have no idea how to change them to make them better. Dont like doing Engfish in a game, I do that enough in English and Writers Craft.

>Any programs extending beyond that, in my mind are just tedious and a waste.

"write another 5 essays on why you like trees" twitch.gif "explain for the 15th time, just WHY you like the light, what the light is, what the core nature of the light is, just how the light is good, what good is, how good is always good" *has Achaea Priest flashbacks* stabbed.gif


The ebonguard have a set of tasks to go from gr1 to gr10... None of them involve essays, and only 1 of them requires an interview.

One of the ones I enjoy watching, is the one we have for the Pride of Horse.

You have to fight somebody and lose to them twice on purpose without them knowing you threw the fight. Then you have to beat them.

Its always fun when I talk to the "victim" and they say things to me like, "Ha, I knew that guy was all talk and no talent" And then when they win they say "He just got lucky"

The Serenguard have a scroll with a few tasks you can do to earn an advancement in novicehood, though none are required and you can only perform each for an advancement. To get from GR1-2 I think you have to take the Serenguard Oath (though I'm not sure... if it's not the way it works it needs to be that way.) To get past GR3 you have to pass the Viridian Ranger Cub Trials. After that, just be a helpful and enthuisiastic guildmember and people will see it and guild favour you. I made it all the way to GR 7 without even passing the Cub Trials (since that rule was put in place after I passed GR 3).

That houses idea... I like the premise behind that idea! I should do some brainstorming and try to work that into expanding the Serenguard rituals.

No making the serenguard just another ebonguard!

Daganev, I agree with ya... however, there's a problem:

look at the druids and guardians... they follow certain aspects, nifty. Each aspect is 5 lines worth of paragraph... and that's it. Now they are supposed to be the highest authority on Crow/Supernals/Demon Lords/Stag

I imagine Wicca are the same

So yes, IC-wise, it is logical that your faith and understanding of these teachings will be -repeatedly- called to be tested cause there's no other choice really.

Extending beyond what is written is nice, heck I tried it... and I was called "missguided" because I brought new ideas.

I think it's a tad more simple for fighters... you cannot demand militaristic discipline and cancel pacifism in other places.

Anyways, it ain't -that- bad. Even if I did do it tons of times...

There's a writing task for ur'Guard... but it involves writing a book, not an essay.

Other than that, the other tasks can often be completed by living life in Magnagora... ie: helping us achieve our objectives in politics and warfare, and generally acting all

It's awesome, really.

Which post exactly were you responding to?

Look at the timeline, the Ebonguard are just another Serenguard .

And I thought one guild of treehugging bonebreakers was bad... :eep: