Druids have the foal path which gets you rank 3, then you go off to the warrior, scholar and influencer/trader path.

Don't know where you'll end up if you only complete one but the favouring is basically mid favours for the first two tasks and high favours for the second two.

I'm currently in the mindset that a true hartstone druid should complete all the paths thus learning the lessons of all the aspects.

We have something like that with the Spiritual Paths. Once you take your oath, these paths open up to you, though you are not required to do them at all. The honour of completing them should be enough anyways. One path for Jaguar, one for Eagle, and one for Wolverine. You can take one, or two, or all three, and you get guild favours each step of the way.

And I don't believe in giving "mid" or "high" favours. If I see someone doing something that impresses me, I'll favour them. I won't write it down and say "could someone lower than me favour this person, they kinda did a good job so they should only get kinda a favour".

I think I'm of a similar opinion though I'm not certain our current system is very efficient in that sense. Hmm.

I think the Warrior/Scholar/Support split is really kinda lame, and I hate guilds that use it and require people to pick one. What about the Arts? What about living life in general and socialization? That's what White Hart especially is about, living life.

In fact, I'd argue that White Hart's whole idea goes against such rigid, limiting paths. He's all about living life to its fullest and learning through experience. People should be able to pick and choose as they go, not be forced onto a single road where they may have only wanted to take a few steps before jumping off and tasting something new.

There's something innately wrong with forcing people to play a game in a way they don't want ot play it. If people don't want to write essays, you don't force them to write essays. If people don't want to fight, you don't force them to fight. If people don't want to influence, you don't force them to learn influence.

Also remember that not everyone is a credit rabbit. The current Doe path in the Hartstone requires Fabled skill in a trade or in Influencing to complete. Do you realize that if you spend all your lessons that you get from leveling on one single skillset, you just barely make it to Fabled? Do you also realize that if someone wants to bash, and maybe fight a little, they won't be able to do that at all if they try to complete the Doe path as well?


The rigid paths idea breaks down if you are trying to make something that everyone will find fun and interesting, and this is a game, isn't it? Not everyone plays it the same way, or has the same tastes. Besides, the IC teachings of White Hart go directly against rigid paths.

I have sent Anarias my proposal already, which he should be sharing with you at some point, for a program that takes into account the teachings of the Hartstone in its very structure.


Exactly. And I hate you for ninjaing me

Am I the only person who likes split paths? The issue with having only one way of advancing through the guild is that you end up either with something that takes no effort at all to get through, and is therefore not fun, or with something that nobody wants to get through because it would force them to fight when they don't want to be fighters or write essays when they don't want to write essays. It's better to have more than one path and then go between them flexibly. In the Geos we do have a fighter path and a scholar path, and they are both rather difficult (I'm considering ways of making them more flexible, so that more people will go through them, and involving mentors more into it).

What Fallen and I are saying is that it's best not to have paths at all, but use another, more freeform system, ESPECIALLY for Hartstone, a guild whose lore is all about individuality.

The issues of force and control are definitely why I don't like the forked path system. I like a comprehensive education though too. More and more I'm thinking that a "merit badge" system is the best way to go. I hate myself for alluding to the boy scouts but there, I've done it.

Ideally, get a core intro system that teaches the absolute basics needed for survival plus things for guild flavour, then give them a billion different options that they can pick and choose.

I like forked training paths. They allow you to pick an area in which you're interested and capable, and offer you rewards for doing what you like. There ought to be leeway for members of a path to explore other areas, perform multiple paths at once, or begin a new path upon one's completion, but learning and advancement should still be divided into tangible sectors. Otherwise you have RPers being forced to write systems in order to advance and people who just want to fight being made to write twelve-page rituals and read through half a million books.

I agree that there should be a 'core intro' system after novicehood that offers a general overview of the basics, and it seems many guilds do this - the Nihilists have Penitents, the Blacktalon have their Assemblies, and the Celestines have post-novicehood path as well. This ought to teach the very basics to fighting and hunting, introduce the advanced skills, and ease the player into the guild and city's roleplaying and atmosphere. After that they ought to be advanced to GR2 or 3, depending on how it's structured, and allowed to pick their path.

Also: In freeform systems, nothing really tends to get done. Without set requirements people don't bother to do anything to advance, people are unsure of who deserves favours, and people are confused as to their role. A very effective common ground can be found between the path and 'do whatever', systems, though, which I've only seen pulled off within the Ur'guard. The Ur'guard offer myriad 'paths', but as opposed to picking one path to follow you get to pick and choose from various tasks within each. You could spar a few times and learn your combat basics to reach GR2, then prove your knowledge of the histories for GR3, then maybe smith some weapons and armour for the guild shop or add a few hundred power to the Megalith for GR4. Or do something entirely different. It's rather nice.

Just in case it was missed, I'd love to see a way that this idea could be made practical...

That's... a PYRAMID SCHEME!

Muahaha, can you picture it? Hartstoner's going door to door and selling the latest gorgeous makeup kits - "Now this lovely shade of blush is one I use all the time myself, I call it 'Sun's Kiss'."

Forget vodun, let's introduce AMWAY!!

The "merit badge" approach works like this without needing to be tweaked to provide the leeway.



This seems to be a problem common to just about any system. Both systems have slackers, I'd just rather have a system that lets motivated people have a choice of what they want to do.

Solution to slacker problem: Chasm.

I really like the idea of giving mentors as much involvement as possible. The Geos need more mages (We only allow people who completed an advancement path and got GR3 to call themselves 'mages') to make this practical, however.

Yeah the mentor idea is pretty cool. Wildly impractical for about everyone though I imagine.

The problem with a mentor-based system is that people go inactive and vanish without a trace. If you're relying on one specific person being there, you could easily become SOL by them vanishing suddenly one day.

You do realise it was Avaleigh who wrote the Doe path, Which I've just gotten annoyed with as she could not actually complete the path which she was leading for this reason.

Also some of the parts of your suggestion need to be fleshed out more and some other things I'll be mentioning later.

Exactly why the suggestion has "This needs to be fleshed out more!" in like, five places

before it starts saying that

I've sent the message anyway

Doe is crazy compared to the other paths. Our combat path asks for something like 25 sparkleberry, and that's optional. Doe requires 100, for influencing, and it's not. I've never in my life needed sparkleberry for influencing, let alone 4x as much as I would in a fight.