So there are technicalities that mean you cannot remain behind a prismatic barrier indefinitely, I think we can all agree with that. I don't think anyone is arguing that it is possible to remain truehealed for hours against determined opposition, nor that there are not incidental skills that can disrupt permanent invulnerability if the user does not take advantage of it intelligently. I think it is difficult to come up with situations where trueheal cannot provide at least 20-40 seconds of safety though.


Are you seriously arguing that trueheal is easily countered, though, and that somehow it is far less useful than other class skills? If not, then we don't need to correct each other's mistakes incessantly in a topic about a completely different skill. If you are... well... I doubt any amount of rational evidence to the contrary is going to change your mind.

And transmigrate -is- overpowered. If you can come up with a fair balanced change faster than we can, go ahead.

My argument was that people with Sacrifice, which I find to be far better than Trueheal in many instances, should not incessantly whine about Trueheal (ie. Shorlen). I very much loved Trueheal while I had it, and I found it to be an incredible ability - but it isn't as wonderful as some people make it out to be. Likewise, Trueheal is a defensive ability. Paladins and Celestines tend to expend power in combat so being at 10p at any given time to use it isn't likely unless you are specifically not using useful powerfeats solely so you can trueheal at some point.

If trueheal was solely defensive, it wouldn't give back balance and equilibrium in an instant. It can be very nicely used offensively.

There are some cheap tricks with it like shieldstun/trueheal/soulless, but by and large, it is a defensive ability. The only real advantage offensively is with soulless since it doesn't take power to use.

But that's a damn sweet thing to do.

I agree, but as I said, there isn't much else it works well doing.

Just tested it - it does the fear affliction, and thus is stopped by wolf and rubeus.

Although Estarra is mistaken in that the initial request was a complete revision of the skillset (some suggestions for instance were as simple as changing the required tints for the ger rune), I find it amusing that you first say there have been no suggested changes, then you post an article that only you and a select few others can see that quite clearly indicates there have been obviously extensive suggestions and clear previous discussion.


That's an opinion, its not an argument. It's a rather ridiculous opinion at that, given that possessing knowledge of certain abilities does not preclude your perception of flaws in others. I have no doubt trueheal seems nicer to those who don't have it than it really is, and I think the fact you need to retain 10p is the biggest combat drawback. However, that doesn't mean that people who are different classes and bring a different perspective cannot discuss your skills and point out some of the key benefits.

To use an analogy, when you were the 'most powerful, by far' with access to Moondancer awesomeness, that didn't mean you weren't entitled to point out inconsistencies and problems in other classes, and indeed you did. Again, I know how well you can argue a point - you don't need to resort to attacking the person rather than what they are saying.


Of course it can. When such a situation arises, I'll let you know how it goes.


While I actually don't disagree with your previous assessment of Moondancer failings, I do notice that it is only now that the class is amazingly 'powerful', and I really can't justify placing much faith in your personal value judgements when they seem to demonstrate such personal bias. I know for a fact you could present actual arguments that the Moondancer class is as powerful as you now believe it to be that would be very compelling, but I don't see why your personal belief alone would be considered rational justification.

Anyway, since you asked... (and note these are from a few months ago)

Why do you all even bother?

Rubeus is stripped once it is used. Thus if you fear twice, fear will hit.

And quotes made a year ago have no relevance because many things have changed since then like Hexes, which is a lot stronger now. Honestly Elryn, you should know better.

You asked, I pointed them out.

I do think your arguing style is degrading though, and where before at least you had valid points mixed in with your insults and dismissals, they seem to be evaporating. Again, I only wished to point out your mistakes and misjudgements as you are so swift to condemn others for theirs.

Carry on.

My points were valid then and given changes are no longer valid... this happens when things CHANGE.

I was referring to your false statements regarding sacrifice and runes.

I wonder if anyone remembers before when Inquisition was only able to be done by the person who started it..... It's really that Celestiens to this day still get upgrades, when I know they were considered one of the strongest classes when the realms opened. And yes, it was that way, me and Amaru tried and tested using multiple people for Inquisition and it wasn't coded to work that way back then and the divine told us, when I was envoy, that it would make it to powerful to be allowed, but that's been changed.

And dazzle is so stupid now, I find it funny they had so many complaints about the 4 or so people using perfect gems so often that they had to nerf it, even though it cant strip sixthsense...and here they go and upgrade dazzle for Celestines.

Another point, considering most fighters use summer/itpheret, the change to shackles was not a huge deal, considering it's required for them to try and kill you with wrack.

You'd draw a lot less ire if you presented the facts without the condescending tone. If someone is wrong, prove it. You don't need to talk down to them in the process. Sometimes people are mistaken, it happens. That doesn't mean they're idiots. Most of us recognize that you know what you're talking about, most of the time. You can provide information and correct people without looking like a jackass, if you put some effort into it.

If you are referring to me Sylphas, I didnt mean to sound that way. Or if you meant Narsrim and others above, I didnt read those posts.

No, I meant Narsrim, you ninjaed me.

Agree mostly.

I think some people, e.g. Narsrim, took this thread as a hailing of the nerf bat which isn't the case. However, I disagree that inquisition can be performed by more than one person for the simple fact that it didn't need that upgrade to begin with. Celest has access to, collectively, vastly superior skills. Narsrim also points out that which I clearly state, the fact that I escaped; that's simply because the four people had no coordination whatsoever. Two kept trying to stun me (I'm inquisitioned.. can't move... *thump*), and the other two split their attacks- one did amissio for an absolve and the other did damage, of which I tanked both just long enough to escape. Also, note that the crucify/trample/sacrifice trick is very difficult to pull off for several major reasons, most of which should be obvious.

Lanko, I'd urge you to read Narses's post; it's quite accurate. A celestine vs a nihilist of the same skill and curing should always outcome the celestine dominating the nihilist. Period.

The problem with a perfect gem is that it would hit an entire room of people. Now that is not a problem under normal circumstances, but it can become one when you are dealing with some demesnes that give blindness (and in turn strips sixthsense). Also including the fact that it was an item gained by a non-combat focused tradeskill, the gem really needed a downgrade to its abilities.

The problem with dazzle is not intrinsic to it. The problem is really the way sixthsense is removed whenever a person is afflicted with or cured of deafness/blindness. In order to keep sixthsense up, a person has waste extra herb balances or sip balances eating myrtle/faeleaf or applying health to head and eating the herbs. In the end, it makes it so a person in no way or how can place sixthsense back up (with blindness), before the dazzler regains balance. So unlike how Magi in Achaea have to first hinder a person's healing before they can actually strip blindness and hope to transfix a person, a person with Dazzle in Lusternia can just use it twice in balance succession and be nearly assured that the target will be transfixed.

From where that stun come from ??
Or have you tumbled when stunned?
Didnt stun stops tumbling?