Revan2006-09-17 02:31:23
Yes
Unknown2006-09-17 02:32:46
QUOTE(Shamarah @ Sep 17 2006, 01:06 AM) 332053
Not letting druids demesne cosmic would be stupid. And letting mages demesne ethereal.
Xenthos2006-09-17 02:33:03
QUOTE(Revan @ Sep 16 2006, 10:31 PM) 332090
Yes
Nope.
I feel that the balance between the two is fine now.
Seems I'm not the only one.
Clise2006-09-17 11:43:36
Well currently the situation on Celestia is that its completely forested and there's no aquamancers around to break it for HOURS. This same situation will never happen on ethereal since mages can't meld there. So I still believe that either mages can meld ethereal or druids can only break melds but not meld on cosmic.
Currently as it is, druids still hold the advantage in offense on cosmic planes and mages can't claim the same on ethereal.
Currently as it is, druids still hold the advantage in offense on cosmic planes and mages can't claim the same on ethereal.
Saran2006-09-17 12:42:06
Actually there is an aquamancer asking hartstone members how to break the meld.
Therefore it is a training issue.
Therefore it is a training issue.
Shorlen2006-09-17 13:46:16
QUOTE(Narsrim @ Sep 16 2006, 10:06 PM) 332077
Wrong. With dryad trees, it is possible to use Sap, Treebane, Raise Cudgel, Twirl Cudgel. Thus in your own words, you are capable of using your primarily killing move. I am unsure if Thornlash/rend is possible, but it might be. This leaves you unable to sapling (which cannot be fairly compared to illusionary terrain because there are advantages to it not being usable everywhere like that tree in Faethorn that took -18- f-ing chops to cut down).
Vines can be easily substituted with a Web enchantment. Pathtwist isn't ever used as you said. This leaves you more-or-less at a loss with only Blend (which you get perma shroud at night with Night Totem and Ecologists get camouflage) and Flow (which is insanely powerful on the sole basis it only works in a forest).
Wrong again. I as an Aquamancer cannot use Deluge (which isn't a demesne effect), Whirlpool (which isn't a demesne effect), Travel (if you are listing Flow, I'm using Travel), Bubble, and Liquidform. Geomancers cannot use Travel, Chasm, or Fleshstone.
If you want to argue that Druids are in many ways more restricted - fine. To say that Geomancers, for example, do not lose any "killing" power when they cannot chasm though is simply false.
=====================================================================
I think the situation as it is IS fine right now. It isn't even, but it never will be because that is a sacrifice when making anything unique. On that note, however, I do feel no side has a truly superior advantage so why fix what isn't broken? The only factor, strangely enough, that bugs me is that Communes get a totem on Ethereal, whereas cities do not get a statue.
Interesting - I never actually tested it, I just assumed that certain skills required forest terrain, and not tress.
From testing:
Dryad trees count as forest for Thornlash and Sap.
Dryad trees do NOT count as forest for Flow, Blend, Treebane, or Saplings.
The important one here is Saplings.
The balance of saplings being harder to cut down in our home territory for cities is that they are 100% ignorable by other communes. If Cosmic was made unterrainable, we would be at a severe disadvantage, since magi can easily hinder the melding of Ethereal with terrain, and we could do nothing to hinder the aquamancers on Celestia. If you don't see this as unbalanced, umm.... why are you an envoy again?
Unknown2006-09-17 14:08:20
QUOTE(Clise @ Sep 17 2006, 07:43 AM) 332257
Currently as it is, druids still hold the advantage in offense on cosmic planes and mages can't claim the same on ethereal.
Do you understand the RP behind it at least?
Saran2006-09-17 14:13:08
I'm confused though, Some people have tried to claim communes don't need enchantments as much as cities need alchemy. Yet it's a simple matter for commune members to get web enchantments for the sake of this arguement.
Also isn't travel a demesne ability therefore it wouldn't count if we're ignoring demesne abilities?
Oh and I can twirl cudgel in taint so...
Also isn't travel a demesne ability therefore it wouldn't count if we're ignoring demesne abilities?
Oh and I can twirl cudgel in taint so...
Clise2006-09-17 14:21:20
QUOTE(Wesmin @ Sep 17 2006, 10:08 PM) 332273
Do you understand the RP behind it at least?
RP? First and foremost it is a game. If for the sake of RP, you have to unbalance things, there is something wrong. Though RP can be twisted around to suit almost anything, I am sure a reasonable explaination as to why the cosmic planes can't be melded by druids can be found.
Though Shorlen has a point with saplings on cosmic planes, perhaps have dryad trees enable saplings as well? I noticed that dryad trees are invincible though, so that's another matter.
Genos2006-09-17 14:24:51
Saplings shouldn't be allowed as it has been shown in the past Nature and Cosmic magic don't mix. Foresting seems to be an exception since the trees aren't -really- there they're kind of like shadows. Saplings are definately there and grow out of the ground, so they shouldn't be able to be used on Cosmic planes without some type of consequence.
It would be cool if the nature of the plane warped the sapling so it would viciously attack the Druid who created it while still blocking Mages from melding over it.
EDIT: Maybe something like this if you did it on Celestia...
You press your hand upon the forest floor and sing a small word of creation.
Slowly, a sapling pushes upwards out of the soil as tendrils of liquid light stream out of the ground and wrap the sapling in a sickening embrace, the tree contorts itself dangerously toward you.
-
You cry out in pain as a sapling whips a vine of pure light across your skin, scalding your flesh with white fire.
It would be cool if the nature of the plane warped the sapling so it would viciously attack the Druid who created it while still blocking Mages from melding over it.
EDIT: Maybe something like this if you did it on Celestia...
You press your hand upon the forest floor and sing a small word of creation.
Slowly, a
-
You cry out in pain as a
Clise2006-09-17 14:33:01
QUOTE(Genos @ Sep 17 2006, 10:24 PM) 332280
Saplings shouldn't be allowed as it has been shown in the past Nature and Cosmic magic don't mix. Foresting seems to be an exception since the trees aren't -really- there they're kind of like shadows. Saplings are definately there and grow out of the ground, so they shouldn't be able to be used on Cosmic planes without some type of consequence.
It would be cool if the nature of the plane warped the sapling so it would viciously attack the Druid who created it while still blocking Mages from melding over it.
Not sure how that would work ...... but I don't really like it
Diamondais2006-09-17 14:34:08
Thatd just be funny.
Genos2006-09-17 14:37:30
I forget, can saplings currently be used on the Cosmic planes or not?
Saran2006-09-17 14:38:04
QUOTE(Genos @ Sep 18 2006, 12:24 AM) 332280
Saplings shouldn't be allowed as it has been shown in the past Nature and Cosmic magic don't mix. Foresting seems to be an exception since the trees aren't -really- there they're kind of like shadows. Saplings are definately there and grow out of the ground, so they shouldn't be able to be used on Cosmic planes without some type of consequence.
It would be cool if the nature of the plane warped the sapling so it would viciously attack the Druid who created it while still blocking Mages from melding over it.
The second terraining starts attacking mages on ethereal. Also the saplings won't stand for longer than a day or so, How long does a terrain last?
Shorlen2006-09-17 14:49:15
QUOTE(Genos @ Sep 17 2006, 10:37 AM) 332284
I forget, can saplings be used on the Cosmic planes or not?
Currently, yes, as long as the druid terrains first.
QUOTE(Saran @ Sep 17 2006, 10:38 AM) 332285
The second terraining starts attacking mages on ethereal. Also the saplings won't stand for longer than a day or so, How long does a terrain last?
The same.
Genos2006-09-17 14:52:26
QUOTE(Shorlen @ Sep 17 2006, 10:49 AM) 332287
Currently, yes, as long as the druid terrains first.
They had this great thing with Cosmic vs. Ethereal magic and then never do anything with it.
Shiri2006-09-17 15:10:43
"The unnatural cosmic energies of Celestia viciously corrupt the innocent sapling in the ground here, withering it to a drained husk as the malevolent giggles of cherubs echo through the air."
Nice and objective as with previous examples in that vein!
Nice and objective as with previous examples in that vein!
Narsrim2006-09-17 22:55:37
QUOTE(Shorlen @ Sep 17 2006, 09:46 AM) 332271
Interesting - I never actually tested it, I just assumed that certain skills required forest terrain, and not tress.
From testing:
Dryad trees count as forest for Thornlash and Sap.
Dryad trees do NOT count as forest for Flow, Blend, Treebane, or Saplings.
The important one here is Saplings.
The balance of saplings being harder to cut down in our home territory for cities is that they are 100% ignorable by other communes. If Cosmic was made unterrainable, we would be at a severe disadvantage, since magi can easily hinder the melding of Ethereal with terrain, and we could do nothing to hinder the aquamancers on Celestia. If you don't see this as unbalanced, umm.... why are you an envoy again?
Given your ignorance in your first post, I would expect you to be a bit more humble. Your points were largely flawed as I pointed out to which you had to test your own abilities to confirm. That usually doesn't bode well for someone who wishes to make an argument - less so for someone who attempts cheap pot-shot comments.
The balance in this situation is in relation to cities versus communes. Thus the argument that saplings are balanced against cities because they don't work on other communes is fairly insubstantial. In any case, you missed my point entirely. I have no qualms with saplings being harder to take down - 18 chops, however, is extreme. Is it too extreme? I would say so, but as I said, I don't find the situation as a whole to be drastically favoring one side or another so I see no reason at this point in time to fix what isn't broken.
I'm guessing in your haste to post, you didn't even read mine because I wasn't trying to argue for Ethereal Serenwilde or Ethereal Glomdoring to be melded. I actually prefer them as they are, which I believe is the stance you have taken. I personally find your attempts to argue "against" me when we share a similar point quite foolish.
Sylphas2006-09-18 00:01:31
Terrain effects other cities, saplings don't affect other communes. It's a rather large point to ignore by saying this is a case of Commune vs City balance. Would you be ok with Mages ignoring illusory terrain, because communes can't?
Narsrim2006-09-18 00:08:51
QUOTE(Sylphas @ Sep 17 2006, 08:01 PM) 332482
Terrain effects other cities, saplings don't affect other communes. It's a rather large point to ignore by saying this is a case of Commune vs City balance. Would you be ok with Mages ignoring illusory terrain, because communes can't?
If it took you 10-18 reality checks in an urban environment to clear terrain THEN BY GOD LETS DO IT NOW! Absolutely RIGHT NOW!. I can definately deal with Geomancers.
