There are more Serenguard trackers than there are Serenguard Stag followers, or so it seems to me (not sure how true that actually is). This had me thinking about ways that Stag can be brought in line with Moon to make it a skillset worth having for a warrior.

Here is the first problem that needs to be addressed:

3104h, 4427m, 4304e, 10p, 14600en, 21575w exk-swing weevil
You swing a golden sickle at a fat green weevil. You cut him, leaving a messy
gash.
3104h, 4427m, 4304e, 10p, 14602en, 21575w exk-swing weevil
You wildly swing a mystic cudgel at a fat green weevil. Your weapon pounds
through the air, missing completely.
3104h, 4427m, 4304e, 10p, 14589en, 21575w exk-touch medicinebag
As both your arms are disfunctional, you cannot do that.
3149h, 4517m, 4304e, 10p, 14589en, 21575w exk-touch medicinebag
As both your arms are disfunctional, you cannot do that.
3149h, 4517m, 4304e, 10p, 14589en, 21575w exk-
You have recovered balance on your left arm.
3149h, 4517m, 4304e, 10p, 14589en, 21575w exk-touch medicinebag
You touch your medicine bag and feel your wounds close and heal.
3149h, 4517m, 4304e, 10p, 14589en, 21575w exk-
A fat green weevil wounds you with a glancing cut.
3099h, 4517m, 4304e, 10p, 14609en, 21575w exk-
You have recovered balance on your right arm.

Medicinebags can be used while off balance, off eq, off one arm balance, but not while off both arm balances. This makes no sense from a balance standpoint, as all it does is make the skill worthless for warriors. Medicinebag gives about the same tankiness as Drawdown, since you can't use it while you are entangled or paralysed and it has limited uses, but it gives you +50% tankiness when you do use it over drawdown's +20%. Drawdown is also more like +30% tankiness due to how damage resistance stacks.

I see no reason for this inconsistancy, apart from realism, and balancing a game where you can sip a potion while swinging two swords and applying salve to your legs and writhing free of a mass of ropes with realism excuses is just plain dumb.



Now, apart from that, the skillset has a trans skill called Stagform, which gives only minor benefits to warriors or druids. Let's look at what it does:

+1 dex isn't bad for warriors, but as far as I understand it, dex is not THAT important. Strength and Con matter more, and int matters as much as dex, as far as I can tell.

Faster movement, though a helpful utility effect, just isn't that useful in combat, just a convience thing. I'm never moving quick enough to get hasty messages while fighting, even when running.

Cheaper stagstomp/parade - stagstomp isn't something a warrior can really make use of, 4p or 2p. Parade isn't bad, but warriors can use love potion where druids can't.

Headbutt causes 100 damage. That's just a bit of flavour. Besides, why headbutt when you can tackle?

Level 1 health regen is kind of nice, but most warriors perfer the level 1 mana regen from drawdown for heightened surge ability.

And the last benefit from Stagform is the Gore attack. A 2p strength/balance based attack that causes a descent amount of damage and if the target is under 50% health, impales, if the target is under 25% health, instakills. In theory, because this is a strength/balance attack, it seems like something useful to warriors, because druids sure can't make good use of it. But, the thing is, it isn't. It just sits there. Why?

If Gore impales, unlike with swords, the impaler can't WITHDRAW or REND. He can just sit there, while his target sips all he wants, until he's good and ready to writhe.

From what people tell me, Gore does less damage than a combo, and does not cause deepwounds, afflict with poisons, or cause deepwound afflictions like a combo does. The advantages are the impaling and the fact that it can't miss, but a lunge/crush costs 2p also and can't miss. Of course, you'd have to use a normal attack with the other hand, but still, that's far superior to Gore in it's current form.

Ideas for making Gore more worthwhile:

Firstly and most obviously, why can't we WITHDRAW or REND our antlers? I never understood how either would be unbalancing.

So, other upgrades apart from that one. What if Gore stripped rebounding if it was up? What if it ignored shield, or ignored and stripped shield? What if it caused some deepwounds to the chest and/or gut, but couldn't cause deepwound afflicts? What if Gore caused some sort of affliction in addition to the rest of what it does, either if the target's health is above 50%, or just anytime stacking with the impale?

Of course not all of these, just one, maaaybe two. I'm not an envoy, I'm not a warrior. Just suggesting things, because it's something that's been bothering me.

Oh, and while we're at it, I'd love a minor utility ability added to Stagform that let you envenom your antlers, which would have a chance of afflicting when you headbutted someone or Gored them, but I don't know how useful that'd be


Dunno, just throwing ideas out here. There has to be a way that Stag an be worthwhile for warriors to take. At the moment, no warriors follow Stag, since Moon is blanketly better just because of TWO skills (Beam and Drawdown).

Thoughts?

Just a few comments. Not that I'm nitpicking.

The medicinebad issue was known for quite a some time. Yes, this needs fixing.

+1 dex matters little. I found dex less useful than int, even less useful than charisma.

Headbutt works more often than tackle and, unlike tackle, doesn't make you travel along with the target. So it has its uses.

Gore could remove shielding, but I don't know how effective it'd be - the enemy would have defenses back before you get balance.

90% of the time when I use it as Shorlen, I wish it took me out of the room too. If they had the same chance of success, I'd take tackle over headbutt any day.


Well, if you impale, they're not going to shield right after. The point was for it to be like cleave, only instead of doing wounding, it could do impale.

Of course, the impale has to be useful.

I honestly have heard a ton of people say we should be able to withdraw/rend - can anyone tell me why we *shouldn't* have these skills?

Not me. I agree with most of what you've written.

Why the slow posting? The other thread's completely stopped by my post. Is there an IC event or what?

I need to sleep.

Just to go over how bad Stagform is in my mind, especially for warriors, let's look at the defences it gives:


Since Dex is the worst stat in the game, it's worth MAYBE 2p for warriors. It isn't worth anything at all for druids.


This isn't something I'd pay power for. It's alright to have, but I only pay power for combat related things, and this is just a small bit of convienence.


For warriors, this is worth MAYBE 1p, for a parade thrown in there. For druids, it's worth quite a bit, depending on how often he stagstomps. Let's say, 8p. This is the only reason I ever use the skill as Shorlen, and even then, it barely makes up for the cost of stagform.


Umm, yay? Worthless, but cool for RP effect.


Not that amazing, perhaps worth 1p. Remember, a level 1 health regen bonus gives less than mercy.


Worth 0p to anyone. Comletely worthless in its current form.


So, to a warrior, stagform gives a benefit of about 3p for a 10p skill. For druids, it gives a benefit of maybe 9p for a 10p skill.

Not only does it require a skillset at trans, it costs significantly more power than it's worth. I would never pay 10p for stagform as either a druid or a warrior unless it was in the arena where things are really free. This is a problem, in my eyes.

Should I do a similar thing for Crowform?

What does crowform do, anyway? Isn't it +1 int and then some other crap?

Yes. On all counts.

I always get the hasty message if I use sprint in combination with any other movement, unless I wait before or after the sprint. Heck, I run into the hasty message even if I'm walking from the mother tree to the road. It's a very nice bonus to have. Pacing's a nifty skill to, as it will let me sprint and have a druid follow me. Stag's trans skill seems week, but it seems to have strong non-trans skills to make up for it. *shrug*

While I'm at it... Sacrifice > whole healing skillset as well for curing others. The new improvements to aquamancy are looking similar as well for self healing, if costly. Where's my insta-cure myself or others skill?

Crow form is:
+1 int
TrueCaw (allows Caw to drain mana when targetted)
Swoop (Must be perched in the trees. Swoops down, grabs the target, deals health and mana damage. If the target is below 25% mana, it insta-kills them)
Level 2 health regen while flying
Ability to fly
Ability to influence undead
Faster Balance while Flying
Resistance to Hexagram, Geyser, & Sylph.
Reduces Eyepeck to 1 power

Edited with more abilities.

It's not like you're going to use crowform without having a crow cloak...

I would suggest that the Hartstone/Serenguard envoys suggest Stagformed persons be able to rend after an impale and Medicine Bag be useable off arm balance. I think those two alone would clear up the bulk of the concern.

Int alone makes Crowform quite a bit better than Stagform. Flying is pretty sweet too if we're comparing both skillsets against each other.

Yeah I wish I could fly

AB CROW CLOAK

You must first obtain a crow's feather in order to make this sacred cloak. When you wear a cloak you created, the cloak will transform you into the lesser form of Crow, granting the ability to speak with the dead, fly, and offer some resistance to poison damage. If worn by anyone else, it will only grant the ability to speak with the dead.

So, um... yeah. Crowform doesn't give flight, since you ALREADY HAVE IT. Especially if you're Glom's race, which is a faeling.

Int's also kind of useless for me. I've got as much use for int as dex to be honest. Int's got a very minor effect on surge, and that's it. Dex has an effect on avoiding NPC dodge rate, afaik. They're both kind of bleh.

If that list is accurate, I'd say Crowform is -far- stronger than Stagform. The mana kill alone opens more options for you, let alone the rest.

The mana kill requires trees.

I have yet to find a way that I, as an Ebonguard, can make trees. At least Serenguard can use gore anywhere.

Crowform is very nice for a druid. Not so nice for a warrior.

Annnnd...you don't get faster aerial balance. You get a movement speed increase.
And the resist to geyser and hexagram (not sylph) is 25%, which is pretty piddly, considering that you're still screwed and likely to die 75% of the time.

Ah. Vague helpfile, but that makes sense. Was never able to really tell, being a faeling and all, so I just assumed "makes your movements faster and the agility of Crow will make it harder to knock you from the air." as a single sentence made me assume balance..didn't actually think of movement speed, since Stagform gives that. And if its a resist to being knocked out of the air.. and sylph knocks you out of the air.. shouldn't that qualify?

Oh, true. I think like a druid, since I am one.