Agreed.

Primebound would need to be cleaned up a lot before I could support it. Right now, it would allow for so many different sorts of abuses on the prime. Some examples below:

1. The person could attack and/or influence enemy denizens without worrying about being killed by defenders. 1 minute would always allow the person to escape. Then the person could just use 2 power again and return to do the same mess over and over.
2. The person could aid allies with beneficial abilities, like healing, without worrying that the enemy will be able to kill them.

Essentially, Primebound would have to have to place Divine Grace like restrictions on the person who uses it before I could support it.

This is a good idea. It won't curb PvP when its needed, it will curb only one thing - jumping people. And jumping is GRIEFING. It's simple as that.

Yes, if we get primebond, we can as well scrap Avechna and (obviously) karma. Nothing wrong with that.

EDIT on ninjas - I agree with Geb's post. And isn't it surprising that most people who disagree with Primebond are the griefers themselves?

EDIT.2 As I've written in the ideas post, Primebond would be turned off when you enter enemy territory - not only cities, but Inner Sea, Shallach or whatever. Healing others could also count as aggressive for this defense.

Oh, there were some great ideas for how to tweak this so it was less abuseable on the original thread. Tuek in particular suggested some pretty good ones on the first page I thought.

To make it ok you could:
Prevent sending tells to anyone but the organisations you belong to yourself
Prevent primebonded people from entering villages that are in play and enemy territories
Require primebond be activated at your nexus. If you don't have a nexus, maybe Avechna?
Prevent shouting while primebonded
Make the power requirements more like vitae

Its definitely a workable idea.

That is your opinion. If the person is active in raiding areas, then the person has to expect retaliation. Anyone who thinks they should be free to raid whenever he/she desires and then not experience any consequences later, lacks a certain grasp of the concept of “being held accountable for one’s actions”.

I also find it amusing that you say Jumping is Griefing, when you jumped a lot of Celest's weaker citizens yourself. Would you then call yourself a griefer?

I jumped the following:

one knight, Talkan or Varent, at the very start.
Shamarah, because he saw that coming.

I'm not proud of both of these and I had a small moral hangover. Yes, it's griefing.

You also jumped me once or twice, and I and got a heartburst on you. You jumped Shamarah right after he sacrificed for a linkdead Celestian after seeing the deathsight.

Jumping is not griefing. Jumping repeatedly just to piss someone off and/or make their life hell is griefing.

Jumping, even once, IS griefing. Find points to counter this argument please, so far I've heard none.

Talkan has jumped me before, in neutral territory, and at that time, I was not an enemy of Celest (apparently I am now, for "precautionary reasons" Yes, I'm such a huge threat, I can't even cure myself properly ) and I did nothing to provoke it, other than mind my own business. My niece, Daphyne, is repeatedly jumped by Talkan and Dysolis, while hunting in the same neutral territory, and again, she is not a threat, not a combatant.

I would appreciate the protection of Primebond. I can't get the Avenger system to work for me, because while I would like revenge, people attack once, and then get their friend to attack the second time. And I'm not going to go and Karma curse someone, what a waste of energy.

If someone takes out a hit on someone else, and the person is known to always be surrounded by "protectrs" When the person is alone bashing, it may be your only opportunity to fuffill the contract.

For the record, I don't know if Primebond is better than Karma or not. All I am arguing is that Primebond is NOT a pk flag, and it won't reduce normal conflict.

It is not up to me to prove that it isn't griefing. The burden of proof lies with you to explain such a blanket statement. It's like saying... "Estarra likes peanut butter crackers." "Oh, since no one has provided a counter-argument, it must be true." That's just rediculous. I hope Estarra likes them though.. they're so damn addictive.

Here are some arguments against your opinion.

We'll define griefing as anything designed to experience some level of pain in real life as they play Lusternia.

I really could care less if someone randomly jumps me, we fight, and then someone dies. That doesn't bother me.

Death itself is not griefing. If someone cries when their character dies every so often, they really shouldn't be playing Lusternia.

Death is griefing when someone maliciously tries to make you angry in real life by jumping and killing you over and over again and bragging about it while at the same time showing OOC anger.

I agree to the point that a jump on a fighter who is known to attack your territories is less griefing-like than attacking, for example, a clueless non-enemied almost-newbie (newbies have innocence). But it's still griefing - you're no longer stopping the attack, but attacking with no intent other than retaliation, retaliation that will cause no damage to the fighter's org, therefore one that is pointless.

Some people, if you kill them enough because of a raid, will not raid in the future. (they also will likely leave the game completely, but thats another story)

And isn't that griefing?

If they stay in the game, you have defended against raids, and that is not greifing. If they didn't really want to raid in teh first place but had no excuses, its not greifing either.

Griefing is like porn, you know it when you see it.

Just because it's pointless doesn't make it griefing. Your argument so far seems to be, "I don't like it, therefore that proves it's griefing." I've been hunted down and/or killed a few times for little reason, and I've never minded. It's not a big deal unless they purposely try to piss you off as a player with it.

I seem to be the one arguing against it the most, and if anyone calls me a griefer, they're insane.

Sylphas, you big, huge griefer, you! You can go and grief all you want on people on other planes or on people in territories that they are enemied to (if you're in the org that they're enemied to) or if they decide to sit and fight, or if they don't get away fast enough. You can follow them if they walk! You can drop a mono before attacking so they can't teleport away! It's not that big of a deal!

Griefing, to me, is anyone who attacks me without notice and without cause. I didn't deserve it, leave me alone, and what the nil did I do to you?

Bad Idea, this would give every single person willing to spend two power complete impunity while on prime. I know for a fact I would use it, as I wouldn't have to worry about a large group nailing me whilst I slay the ur'dead or those in the cathedral/presidio or merians/gorogs or anything. Utterly terrible idea.

p.s--Jumping someone is not griefing. Killing anyone arbitrarily regardless if they are enemied to your org or not could possibly be considered such. But as you said in your post about when you attacked shamarah, a HUGE amount of people "have it coming" While not threats in and of themselves, people like to be smartasses, think that they are sneaky, then cry foul when they are punished for their actions

I kill on a fairly regular basis, and don't think I've ever been seriously called a griefer.

I'm going to be flamed into oblivion for saying that what I believe is the utmost PK system is what they have in Imperian, IE "You need a valid RP reason to attack someone. No, the fact that they belong to another organization is not valid. No, the fact that you play a psychotic loonie is not valid, either. No, the fact that they're enemied to your organization isn't valid either, you griefer."

Unfortunately, our playerbase would never go with that. I'd agree to primebond if:

It cuts out your power regeneration, and costs five power. You start regenerating power again as soon as the bond is severed, before you become targettable.

It breaks instantly upon entering enemy territory of any kind.

The way I see it, this would prevent random, senseless PK on prime a lot more, while keeping PK for any and all valid reasons possible - IE, protecting the innocent, and so on and so forth.

EDIT: This would require changes in NPC organizations. At least, make it so places like the ur'dead and presidio are organizations that enemy, if they're not already. At most, make it so NPC orgs enemy for being influenced with paranoia, although that might be a little extreme. In short, primebond would let you talk at the Aetherplex chamber (It should probably work in manses, too), collect cows, do pilgrims, and do harmless questing, bashing and influence without fear of being jumped for no good reason.

I'd rather it prevent you from entering enemy territory at all. If you're going into enemy territory willingly then you shouldn't be able to be invincible on your way there. If you're not trying to enter enemy territory, no problem because you can't.