Ethelon is such an individual, he helps people by getting them in Lusternia from one side with his system, turns them away with griefing from the other side.

But if we are talking about off-prime griefing here - ohoho! Celest excells in the last 3 OOC months, surely.

Cuber.. for what few able fighters actually live in Serenwilde, they jump like crazy. Ixion, Athana, Tuek, Shorlen, Elryn, I'm forgetting some others. Basically - jumping isn't griefing. Killing someone five times a day could be. Shorlen and Elryn have both dreamweaved against me while I was bashing. I didn't die, but technically it was a jump. Am I whining about it?

I don't attack people just because they're a member of an enemy organization. That's just silly. I will, though, attack people in Faethorn during the war.. because.. it's during the war. I really never mess with Serens outside of that sort of setting, save an occasional Shorlen/Elryn/Yini/Flacarealah jump. I will go on earth occasionally and greet random Magnagorans there. I don't kill them.

Cuber, can you stop making so many false accusations? I know for a fact that most of us only jump raiders. Even then, I rarely jump city enemies just for being there. 90% of the pk I do is organized raiding. Cuber, please, prove something rather than just making an ill-informed blanket statement.

Please don't bring up Malicia in these conversations, she can't defend herself.

Are they from an enemy org in org-claimed, off-Prime territory? My post was directed against people like you.

You've got it totally backward, this would protect people FROM that type of person.

..in theory at least.

Only if you stand a chance. I don't see how anyone can be excited by the prospect of having to stop doing whatever they're doing and losing experience because someone decided they were 'justified' in killing them because of org affiliation or enemying. There's a difference between being excited because of danger, and having to be constantly tense and paranoid because at any moment, someone can come and completely own you. With most decent fighters, a non-fighter doesn't even stand a chance at running away, let alone survive long enough to teleport.

Conflict is not the only point of the game, nor what 'drives' Lusternia. I don't believe people should be dragged into PvP on Prime, in neutral areas (Which is only one aspect of conflict) if they don't want to and aren't hurting another organization.

When Talkan attacked me on Prime, while I was hunting in the Grey Moors, BEFORE I was enemied to Celest, for absolutely no reason other than I was there and and easy target, I had spores in my hand, and he made it so I couldn't even snort them to get away.

I know there are various subtleties to your statements, Verithrax, but reading that makes me immediately think, "Well, you're playing a multiplayer game. You don't always get your own damn way. happens, deal with it."

I cannot believe people are voting yes to this.



What he said.

Maybe, but it would also make it possible for people to initiate conflict with impunity, knowing that they've got a safety net that allows them to avoid consequences. I'd be far more OK with long-term, hard-to-change PK flags, than with people being able to go on the offence and cause trouble one moment, and be perfectly safe the next.


Ditto! I don't want to play a game that allows most of the player base to bash and chat all day long and never experience even the slightest inkling of danger. (If you want to play that game... Achaea awaits. Without the pressure of conflict, things degenerate fast.)

I think some people have this backward idea that they should not be held responsible for the actions they take. Example, people feel they should not be jumped if they are killing entities that some organization has sworn to protect. Another example is when they come in a huge group and jump some powerful fighter, yet whine later on when said fighter gets them back the next rl day or a couple of days later.

I think we need to really establish what is griefing and what is not. I also think people need to understand that there are going to be consequences for their actions. If they participate in a raid one-day, they better be prepared for their enemy's response. If they go into an area and harm the denizens that are under the protection of a particular organization, they better be prepared for some citizen of said organization coming for them. Also, if the person directly aids another in a fight offensively or defensively, the person better expect that such action will be responded to with hostility. Essentially, a person has to understand that his/her actions have real consequences; he/she should not expect their enemies to have amnesia about an event just because it happened a few rl days ago.

The poll isn't phrased too well. I do think it would curb pk more then karma does... but I hate hate hate hate hate the idea.

God, are we back to this? I was hoping the last spout of PK debate prior to karma's introduction would be the last one I'd have to live through. Christ...

Well, my original offer still stands.

I think this whole thread was brought back to life because of the war. My theory is if there were less PK inhibitors, the war would have ended a LONG time ago. Strict rules and penalties on PK just drag it (the war) out and make some people miserable.

Sincere question here; how would no or less regulations help end the war sooner?

Very good post.

And i dont like this primebond idea.

I never attacked someone how was only defending. But if you are agressor to my guild/org/etc you have to expect that i will try to kill you later.
I do not think that killing someone on nutral ground after he attacked your org earlier is griefing.

Here's my suggestion for a primebond system I would support:

First, all sentient NPCs are given an organizational affiliation and territory. This includes pilgrims (Their territory would be the road and their leader, Trader Bob) and scholars (Their territory would be the mountains and their leader, Weeky Peedea.)

You can put up PrimeBond at a cost of 7 Power wherever you are allowed to keep it up. Raising it takes 60 seconds. You lose it instantly if you:
- Enter a plane other than Prime or the Aetherplex, or are inside an aethership when it launches into the Aetherways.
- Enter enemy territory; this includes NPC organizations.
- Enter the Inner Sea while enemied to Celest.
- Enter the Sea of Despair while enemied to Magnagora.
- Are attacked by a manse owner inside a manse.
- Attack someone inside your own manse.
- Are attacked by three distinct people of the same organization you are enemied to (The third attack goes through.) If you are killed by anyone in said organization, you gain suspect on all people involved. Your prime bond still prevents people from other organizations from attacking you.

Your primebond disappears in one minute if you are attacked, or if you allow for it to release.

An attack must be an active effect. People who are primebonded can walk through demesnes they are enemied to, and are impervious to the attacks of fae, demons and angels.

It has to drop when you enter a village that's in play, or it's far too strong.

Would Karma and Avenger remain, if not then you would be hunted much more often on enemy grounds then how it is now.

This sounds like "I prefer mints to chocolate, and I can't believe there are people who prefer chocolate to mints. Are they stupid or what?"

Offer constructive criticism. Xavius did. You didn't. Shamarah didn't.