I'm fairly certain it is illegal to force someone from Faethorn into Ethereal Serenwilde. Any force on Celestia is just Celestia->Celestia; however in this case, it was Faethorn->Ethereal Serenwilde. Thus, the movement was from neutral territory into enemy territory, which is generally not allowed ALTHOUGH given the policy is so up in the air, I wouldn't be at all in shock if it has changed once again.

Using a Prime example, assume you are ENEMIED TO LADANTINE but -not- enemied to the Kelpies.

+ I could legally force you from Sea of Despair (where you are standing and enemied) into the Inner Sea (where you are being moved to and not enemied)

+ I could -not- legally force you from the Inner Sea (where you are standing and not enemied) into the Sea of Despair (where you are being moved and are enemied)

=====

Also, archways were introduced SPECIFICALLY so couldn't force someone into Ethereal Serenwilde or Ethereal Glomdoring.

I don't remember that part. I remember people bitching about people attacking over the boundaries far more than I remember anyone forcing people in or out.

Also, it's off-Prime, so using a Prime example means nothing. In addition, why is it not legal to go Faethorn -> Etherwilde, but it is to force someone into the Pool? You're still being forced into guards. Since the changes, the only real difference is that we have a totem and you guys don't have a statue.

The difference is area-based. If I force someone into guards on Celestia, they lose as much experience as if they had died anywhere else on Celestia. Forcing from Faethorn->Ethereal Serenwilde and dying is a huge experience increase.

wow, and here I thought the archways were changed so celestian groups could pick off seren's while they were off-balance!

In actuality they were placed to help slow raiding, and the balance time change is also for that reason as well. You need to transverse and are off equilibrium for a long time, or you need to enter the archway and are off balance for a long time, either way when entering off-prime territories by simple walking (non ship/cubix for cosmic non ship/cubix/hermit/spores/teleport/ect for ethereal) you are subject to guards. Why you would walk when you have other options, I don’t know, but it’s purpose is to help limit raiding, not to ‘protect the rights of raiders’ as you seem to infer.

Wrong. They were placed because Serenwilders were standing just outside EthGlom for huge periods of time cudgelling inwards, Visaeris ranted on the boards, and Estarra said, "Oh, this is the way I wanted them to be originally. Here you go!"

aka: raiding.

Thank you for proving my point.

Standing outside cudgelling isn't raiding.

It's being a PITA.

There was no intention of coming inside or actually fighting, just standing outside being a nuisance for no good reason.

You're nit-picking, my point stands.

Replace seren with celestian, and glom with seren and you've got the same situation.

Again, thank you for proving my point.

I'm not nitpicking at all. They weren't put in due to raiding, they were put in due to Serenwilders being annoying.

They had the *side effect* of slowing down raiding due to no longer being able to fly in over guards or walk in in the trees, but the posted rant and subsequent change were due to cudgelling from outside, not the actual raiding itself.

If I replace raiding, with 'hostile activity along borders' will you stop your nit-picking?

Edit:My point was they were -not- placed in to deal with movement rules which.. arn't even valid off-prime. The large balance times added later, were -not- placed in to deal with movement rules either, it was to even it out with the need to transverse when entering cosmic.

Sure, but then you'd have to just rewrite your whole initial statement, since it didn't "slow" hostile activity along borders, it just removed cudgel from the equation. I'm sure you can find some posts somewhere about certain people hopping through archways on both sides, which actually INCREASED hostility in many ways.

Edit: And in reply to your edit, you're correct. The Drums already had an anti-movement effect that USUALLY worked, although it didn't stop tackle. Amaru tried spam-beckoning me but it never went through. There WERE anti-movement rules ALREADY IN PLACE, and when * was issued for tackling Visaeris out, she was punished I believe.

I really wouldn't have to rewrite my statement, just clarify some things for you and the gramer-squad, but, whatever suit yourself. If you'd like to actually comment on the thread in a productive way, feel free, but remember to play nice, and that:

This thread is about a dreamweaving skill and it's usage. This thread is not about A. something that someone who isn't a seren did to your org 1 real-life year ago. B.nit-picking my words apart.

At any rate, I think I've withstood enough forum trolls for the night.

Either way, they serve their purpose. As far as I'm aware the current "moving into guards" policy isn't solid enough to say whether Shorlen broke the rules or not. Kudos to him for dealing with someone camping outside of Serenwilde's only really viable entrance to Faethorn.

Oh, I did comment on the thread in a productive way-- see my edit in reply to your edit! While the archways weren't introduced to stop movement from one area to another, it was already banned by both issues and the Drums.

Besides, when someone tries to planar summon you out of the nexus room on any non-prime plane, you are told that the ORG DEFENCES throw you back. Therefore, the room is ORG TERRITORY, and not Celestia territory or Nil territory or Moon territory. It is Seren/Celest/Mag. Guards can only be placed there if it's org territory. When Clise summoned me to the Pool of Stars on Celestia, she was ENEMIED TO CELEST and killed by her own guards for summoning an enemy into Celest territory.

If you're going to argue that people can be moved from Celestia to Celest territory because no mechanics are in place to stop it, then I'm going to argue that people can be pooka forced to enter the archway and possessed to enter the archway, for the same reasons you are giving.

Everyone knows that posses is only supposed to be used for reading news and messages.

And every other use is griefing, right?

MESSAGES FULL is unforcable though Need to try MESSAGES next time...

I was kidding....

Actually, if I'm remembering correctly I was warned not to possess someone and move them through the archway from Etherglom to Faethorn at one point. In fact, I'm pretty sure the latest announce post about enemy territory was if not in response to that action, at least clarifying for Ethereal in particular.


For now though, who knows. I don't like the whole 'no rules on planes' idea - I'm pretty sure if I started cussing out someone for being a (Insert racist/bigoted/hateful word) and so on while on Astral, I'd still be held to account for violating the anti-discrimination rules of the game. There is no avenger on the planes, and hence no suspect/declaration rules... but rules don't exist just because they are convenient - they exist for a reason.

If there is the same reason for shifting rules on the planes as there is for prime (there are the same exploitable systems like home/neutral/enemy territory), then the rules that govern fair play with those systems should remain.

And with the whole no-rules off-prime thing, how about the move where someone gets forced off-prime from prime and then gets killed? Not that we'll mention any names about who did it or who it happened to (wasn't me for once!).

As for the whole totem/guard rooms off-prime, tactics that force you into them, while annoying are fine, if you're actually putting yourself at risk in doing it. If somone is going to get pooka/angel/thrall forced through an archway or to move to the room into the guards, you have the opportunity to attack or otherwise deal with the critter or it's owner. If someone is trying to gust you, you can still attack them and try and kill them (Admitedly not great odds if you got seperated from your group, but group combat is about splitting up people).

The one I find lame is people sitting in the room with guards, beckoning, since they're not putting themselves at risk at all. I think beckoning somoene into guards should do the whole auto-enemy if it doesn't already. People should have to put a little effort into it.