Exarius2006-09-22 21:09:29
There's a reason I put "neutral" in quotes here.
Xavius2006-09-22 21:12:10
QUOTE(Exarius @ Sep 22 2006, 03:09 PM) 334520
There's a reason I put "neutral" in quotes here.
All the more reason to avoid it. Seriously, learn from our mistakes. Glomdoring tried it. It's a failed experiment. It's a little like communism. Lovely idea, impossible to execute.
Abethor2006-09-22 21:17:02
QUOTE(Xavius @ Sep 22 2006, 04:12 PM) 334523
All the more reason to avoid it. Seriously, learn from our mistakes. Glomdoring tried it. It's a failed experiment. It's a little like communism. Lovely idea, impossible to execute.
Exactly.
Sure the idea is great, but with how human nature is set up, and how Lusternia is meant to be, it just can't work.
Exarius2006-09-22 21:21:14
QUOTE(Xavius @ Sep 22 2006, 04:00 PM) 334518
So, given the above, what're you going to do with a peaceful, neutral organization? Do you think every rogue in the game will materialize in Deepnight and be content? Do you think every pacifist in the game will completely remove themselves from conflict? Amen, amen I say to you, the people who lose their lives in conflict will gain it, and those who hide from conflict to save themselves will surely die!
I'm sorry, Xavius, but no matter what anyone tried to achieve with Glomdoring, the fact of the matter is its PR has been anything but neutral. That skews the type of players who're attracted to Glomdoring, and their reactions to the levels of conflict.
But I would actually predict that largely neutral city would attract a handful of diehards for their main character, and just be a hang out for secondary characters for people who needed a break from the conflict of the other places. The point as I see it is NOT to create a bustling new center of activity, but to provide a place on Lusternia itself where players could go to relax and unwind without removing themselves entirely from the game's social pool.
Anarias2006-09-22 21:25:50
QUOTE(Exarius @ Sep 22 2006, 03:21 PM) 334525
I'm sorry, Xavius, but no matter what anyone tried to achieve with Glomdoring, the fact of the matter is its PR has been anything but neutral. That skews the type of players who're attracted to Glomdoring, and their reactions to the levels of conflict.
That's going to happen with every new place, including any so-called neutral ones.
Exarius2006-09-22 21:32:51
QUOTE(Abethor @ Sep 22 2006, 04:17 PM) 334524
Exactly.
Sure the idea is great, but with how human nature is set up, and how Lusternia is meant to be, it just can't work.
Ultimately, Estarra will say what Lusternia is meant to be, and whether any deviation from that game plan is worth the attempt. But we've all acknowledged there is a real problem. I'm offering a tangible solution.
If you don't think it's worth a try, what do you think is?
Verithrax2006-09-22 21:35:07
Except Glomdoring is anything but neutral.
First, it has a philosophy IC that stops anyone from holding a personal opinion, ever. Being a part of Glomdoring means submitting to its groupthink, and while Glom's players seem to enjoy it, it's not everyone's cup of tea.
Secondly, it has historical ties that put it in conflict with Serenwilde and Celest.
Thirdly, it has a highly isolationist RP that is going to put it at odds with everyone anyway.
Glomdoring isn't, never was, was never supposed to be, anything close to neutral.
First, it has a philosophy IC that stops anyone from holding a personal opinion, ever. Being a part of Glomdoring means submitting to its groupthink, and while Glom's players seem to enjoy it, it's not everyone's cup of tea.
Secondly, it has historical ties that put it in conflict with Serenwilde and Celest.
Thirdly, it has a highly isolationist RP that is going to put it at odds with everyone anyway.
Glomdoring isn't, never was, was never supposed to be, anything close to neutral.
Exarius2006-09-22 21:42:40
QUOTE(Anarias @ Sep 22 2006, 04:25 PM) 334527
That's going to happen with every new place, including any so-called neutral ones.
My apologies to you, too, Anarias, but I doubt if the admins set their minds to creating a place meant for respite from conflict, that they'd launch it in a bleak, harsh land under the oversight of a goddess driven mad by Kethuru who actively encouraged political backstabbing and a survival of the fittest ethos. Nor would they weave all sorts of gothic death imagery into every fiber of its being.
QUOTE
12.2.4.2 GLOMDORING COMMUNE, THE HEART OF DARKNESS
Sprawled across the southeastern hills, lays the foreboding Glomdoring forest. It is a place where shadows live and nightmares manifest. Those who venture uninvited returned shaken, mumbling incoherently of monsters of thorn and soil, horrors of shadow. Under the malevolent gaze of Crow and Mother Night the community of Glomdoring has come to name the place home. Within its shadowy borders, three guilds came to existence: The Shadowdancers, Blacktalons and Ebonguard. Together they work as a single unit to spread the glory of their forest throughout the Basin, personifying the wrath and power that are Glomdoring. Weakness is not tolerated and total loyalty is demanded. Those weak of heart and mind have nothing to seek in the forest of no mercy.
PR starts when a newbie enters the portals for the first time and reads the official descriptions of the communities he can choose from.
Anarias2006-09-22 21:58:02
QUOTE(Exarius @ Sep 22 2006, 03:42 PM) 334531
My apologies to you, too, Anarias, but I doubt if the admins set their minds to creating a place meant for respite from conflict, that they'd launch it in a bleak, harsh land under the oversight of a goddess driven mad by Kethuru who actively encouraged political backstabbing and a survival of the fittest ethos. Nor would they weave all sorts of gothic death imagery into every fiber of its being.
PR starts when a newbie enters the portals for the first time and reads the official descriptions of the communities he can choose from.
My point was and still is independent of the Glomdoring example.
Exarius2006-09-22 22:03:56
QUOTE(Anarias @ Sep 22 2006, 04:58 PM) 334532
My point was and still is independent of the Glomdoring example.
Well, then, I just don't buy your point this time.
My own point, on the other hand -- that this isn't just a few oddballs wanting a new option, but a significant percentage of the player base -- has been well and truly made.
Anarias2006-09-22 22:09:15
QUOTE(Exarius @ Sep 22 2006, 04:03 PM) 334533
My own point, on the other hand...
has a small handful of support on this thread and doesn't account for even a quarter of the average number of players that are typically online. There are people who don't visit/reply to the forums at all which are going to slant your numbers too. The perspective is limited and the data suspect. That's not to say you're by default wrong. It just means that you probably shouldn't be so certain.
Unknown2006-09-22 22:32:19
How many times do I have to say that neutral organizations cannot work in Lusternia...
Anyway, I'd much rather see the addition of a lost city or Ackleberry than of some brand new neutral organization that would further thin the playerbase and lead to those places never coming out, while also drawing away active players from existing orgs. I don't think Glomdoring could survive with any fewer people.
Anyway, I'd much rather see the addition of a lost city or Ackleberry than of some brand new neutral organization that would further thin the playerbase and lead to those places never coming out, while also drawing away active players from existing orgs. I don't think Glomdoring could survive with any fewer people.
Richter2006-09-22 22:36:19
QUOTE(Anarias @ Sep 22 2006, 03:09 PM) 334534
has a small handful of support on this thread and doesn't account for even a quarter of the average number of players that are typically online. There are people who don't visit/reply to the forums at all which are going to slant your numbers too. The perspective is limited and the data suspect. That's not to say you're by default wrong. It just means that you probably shouldn't be so certain.
In regards to that comment, a lot of the Deepnight clan members don't frequent the forums. So yeah, information is skewed, but both ways.
QUOTE(Temporary_Guido @ Sep 22 2006, 03:32 PM) 334536
How many times do I have to say that neutral organizations cannot work in Lusternia...
Well, at least I agree with you. *pat* Hence the bolded part of my previous post.
Unknown2006-09-22 23:04:37
Judging by what you want to see, Richter, I think Ackleberry would be the perfect organization. It doesn't have any established roleplay, really, and yet bringing it to bear (no pun intended!) wouldn't require the fabrication of a brand new city or commune out of thin air. Assuming no one crazy got in charge at the beginning I could see a whole lot of the people dissatisfied with current conditions heading there. From what we can tell it's a rather passive, benign place.
Daganev2006-09-22 23:10:14
I think deepnight should get some "official" recognition of its greatness... however, I will say this in all caps to make it clearn... IT WILL HAVE ZERO AFFECT ON PLAYER BASE... It might however inspire people to build up thier own things and cause more culture in the game, but it will HAVE ZERO AFFECT ON THE PLAYER BASE.
Xavius's post was very well written and very truthfull.
Xavius's post was very well written and very truthfull.
Unknown2006-09-22 23:10:49
I like what Deepnight offers people. A community that does not judge, discriminate, or notice anyone's personal history, simply welcomes them and allows peaceful cooperation and unity outside of the strict nation beliefs. I certainly think it will continue to offer these things, and succeed as a clan/manse because of it.
I don't think it would work at all as a nation of its own, nor do I think any neutral organization would contribute positively to Lusternia. Others here are right in that it would not remain neutral unless it had little to no uniqueness, RP, or history.
I don't think it would work at all as a nation of its own, nor do I think any neutral organization would contribute positively to Lusternia. Others here are right in that it would not remain neutral unless it had little to no uniqueness, RP, or history.
Daganev2006-09-22 23:15:57
As for neutral orgs... I was part of Hashan in Achaea when it was suppose to be "netural"... IT NEVER WAS.
Cyrene? Also not nuetral...
Celidon, tried neutrality, didn't work.
There is really no such thing as neutral. Everyone has a beef with you because you are 'the other"
Let me also repeat.... I think the world can gain, and culture be more active in Lusternia is a place like Deepnight was given the opportunity to be more "official" Some mechanism, such as Families have Great houses... for Manses to have Great Communities or something.
Cyrene? Also not nuetral...
Celidon, tried neutrality, didn't work.
There is really no such thing as neutral. Everyone has a beef with you because you are 'the other"
Let me also repeat.... I think the world can gain, and culture be more active in Lusternia is a place like Deepnight was given the opportunity to be more "official" Some mechanism, such as Families have Great houses... for Manses to have Great Communities or something.
Exarius2006-09-23 00:57:31
QUOTE(Temporary_Guido @ Sep 22 2006, 05:32 PM) 334536
How many times do I have to say that neutral organizations cannot work in Lusternia...
One more, Guido. Always one more.
Unknown2006-09-23 01:49:14
How does Ackleberry not have pre-determined RP as to who it will hate?
The Taint and Magnagora were attacking Ackleberry prior to their leaving.
They were afraid enough of the Taint to abandon reality.
Their High Druid was kidnapped by Glomdoring and turned into a giant wyrm thing.
Serenwilde didn't come to help them against the numerous invading orcs.
Celest let loose the Taint.
The Taint and Magnagora were attacking Ackleberry prior to their leaving.
They were afraid enough of the Taint to abandon reality.
Their High Druid was kidnapped by Glomdoring and turned into a giant wyrm thing.
Serenwilde didn't come to help them against the numerous invading orcs.
Celest let loose the Taint.
Unknown2006-09-23 02:08:12
QUOTE(Fallen @ Sep 23 2006, 01:49 AM) 334583
Serenwilde didn't come to help them against the numerous invading orcs.
Not that I don't think disagreement could be developed with Serenwilde... but is this fact?
