Damn...I knew this had something to do with Isune! I mentioned it IC. If we can still salvage this plot in some way, please do so!!!

11:00PM EST is too late for me. (And you might want to think about delaying that action if more people can attend on the weekend--no need to rush a very important meeting--although I know the timing is bad 'cause of the anniversary) But some quick thoughts.

I think players were concerned with the axis of "good vs. evil", and that Glomdoring is always going to be seen as "tainted" by Celest and even Serenwilde. Something has to change in that respect. I can't see Glomdoring existing the way it is.

What if Glom was to go inactive, but they were still allowed to use their skillset powers as rogues--with the restrictions of course? I could see this leading to some interesting RP--some go to Serenwilde to try to rebuild the tenents of Mother Night with the lore of the summer court, some go to Magnagora and become the Wiccans serving the taint, some become rogues and remember the memory of the past etc.

I'd like to see one of the lost cities come back--but if they and the skillsets aren't built yet and/or they both need to come back at the same time, I can see it not being worth it. Maybe a colony of Ackleberrians come by, heal the Ebonglom Wyrm and Viravain, and it does become Gloriana.

If possible, maybe the thing to do is to use this to consider the possibility of creating a true player-driven org (without special skillsets), such as the Deepnight poll. Since there are people who feel the admin are not responsive to a players impacting the world, this might be a good idea to consider.

Estarra, while I want to see your vision of the world come alive, and would rather see your communities come out first, letting the players create something new on their own with your support might be helpful for letting players think their impact matters--and a community that is not in the history but is something new might be helpful, especially since a lot of players complain that they feel "railroaded" a little too much. Just a thought.

(I also think destroying a community might shake things up a bit, and give people the sense again that "anything can happen", even though it might be rough on the players. If this was the case, maybe some of the leaders could be given credits/lessons to start new characters elsewhere for being good sports about it).

I voted that Viravain should stay but not be so involved, however I also really disagree with this.

I think one of the more fun things in an order is people trying to have thier god influence the place they live. But what I think needs to change is the line that says Glomdoring IS Viravain.

This change could easily be done by Viravain decidding that "her child" her creation, needs to be "set free" and grow on its own. Where now, she becomes a "servant to the forest" as the mortals once were. Yet, not a servant like a slave, but like that guy behind the throne who whispers into the ears of the king.

so that Viravain is involved, but not restrictive. What would also be needed is for Shikari to come back!

cause you said there was a problem with my idea?...

Quoting for us short attention span people helps a lot. I couldn't understand to what post you were ref.. oooh, something shiney



eeeeeeeeeeeee

I voted that keep the RP, but somehow make it more inviting, and keep viravain the way she is, but have her less involved in politics, as she rules right now with an iron fist, and controls everything.

Personally, I see glomdoring as the most un-welcoming place. Unless you are with Glomdoring (or currently and Celest), you go into the forest and a Totem blasts you. Newbies who are just curious about seeing the world have blundered into Glomdoring, and get blasted with a Totem and then thing, "WTF? this is tottally BS?" then quits, and never comes back. Most people are telling their Newbies, STAY OUT OF GLOMDORING. Why? because it's not a very hospitable place. At least with Magnagora, they'll let a Celestian in as long as he/she is not gonna cause trouble. IE: or something like that. Glomdoring won't even allow you in the forest.

As for totally ditching Glomdoring, I'm against it. They have been around for almost a year and half, (maybe moreso) but it's their limiting factor that has kept them small scale. If a rogue wants to find out what Glomdoring is like, he has to be a member of the Commune to do so, At least with the other ones, you can tour around their respective 4x4 sections of the basin to see, do I like this? Or do I not? Most people probably have a fairly decent first impression of what the Communes and Cities are. With Glomdoring, you get a very unwelcoming atmosphere.

Again, don't ditch Glomdoring. I know as a Gaudiguch fan myself I could look at this: Oh Glomdoring DIEEEES!!!!! GAUDIGUCH RISE!!!!!! But that would be a slap in the face (and a hard one at that) to people like Xenthos who strove from Day 1 to see Glomdoring's return.



Edit: While we're at it, could someone please fill me in on what happened, since we're having this big discussion about it?

There is only two problems that I see with Glomdoring's "philosophy"


1. Getting players to not accept the "code" as reality, but rather getting RP to define reality... That problem seems to have been pretty well solved, but might be part of the reason for the small population.

2. Secrecy. Secrecy seems almos impossible, and the ideal situation for glomdoring would be to be Nice on the outside and mean on the inside. But if thats ever accepted, it wouldn't work, because being mean on the inside only works if people really think you are nice on the outside.

I voted that Glomdoring should keep its RP (a neutral org is horrible, and destroying it entirely leaves the realms imbalanced - only one commune with alchemy - and throws away all the work of the Glomdorites). I like Viravain and she's always struck me as an amusing character; she should stay but just be less directly involved in Glomdoring politics (she should be more like Hajamin was in Celest politics - a very definite force but not actually wielding direct power except through order members).

However, ultimately, the change in Glomdoring has to come from the players, not the admin. I considered switching to Glomdoring back during the whole fiasco about the conversion of the fae (which became a moot point anyway because I ended it by getting elected Prince) but the main reason I didn't really want to join it and probably would have joined Mag instead given the choice is that it's simply not friendly to those with an inclination to fight and raid. Glomdoring is apparently supposed to be the forest without mercy, yet right now the policies are set for peace and accommodation, more like how one would expect Serenwilde to be. They prohibit people from raiding, vastly limit power drawing, and place many other heavy restrictions on how their fighters act.

Glomdoring needs to break out of its pacifist shell and become aggressive. Yes, you WILL get stomped repeatedly. But it's the only way Glomdoring will ever grow. Cowering behind the protection of pacifism and nonaggression isn't going to make Glomdoring stronger, it's just going to make it weaker as the population becomes more and more complacent. Look at Glomdoring right now - the only "real fighter" is Diamante. Glomdoring needs to raid, it needs to fight, and it needs to attract fighters. The idea of Glomdoring as an expansionist forest looking to crush everything in its way has always appealed to me, and if it did this, I might actually end up joining. But as-is, Glomdoring is totally nonaggressive, and while it remains that way, it just won't grow.

Also, I'm being told Shayle and Xenthos were not only kicked out of their positions but also out of Glomdoring altogether. WTF is up with that? They're both amazing people who ought to remain in the commune.

I have very strong feelings about this, and not to sound whiney but I must say that Serenwilde started this presidence. I was very young when I was killed by anything serenwilde owned. I think Magnagora might have been the same way, I wasn't as objective back then to know. But staying out of places is something that has always been part of Lusternia if you were on the wrong team.

wtf

Again, I'll say, Shayle and Xenthos were not kicked out, nor did we resign.

We were -forced- to quit and -forced- to resign, meaning, the command QUIT GLOMDORING was input by Divine intervention.

After that we were enemied.


I would like my character back please.

I can't make the meeting because I have to work in the morning, and I can't stay up until midnight when I have to get up every day at 5:30am. I think maybe a meeting might have been a better idea BEFORE our characters were raked over the coals for roleplaying as was dictated by Estarra here just the day before a real life year's worth of work and dedication were discarded.

I would just like my character back the way she was before. I don't think it's too much to ask.

You know.

On the concept of newbies wandering in and getting totem-blasted... Just to put into scope, if you walk into Bloodloch you don't just get afflicted and told to leave; you get effing killed.

That pretty much counts as being kicked out in my book, just doesn't show up that way on the logs.

I totally agree with your request. I am, however, curious as to why, in your own words, you think such happened?

That was a Celest/Serenwilde/Magnagora thing from day one.

I picked:

Let it go inactive and bring it back later as something new.

She should transform into something new.

My sole reason being that I believe that would be the best way to get rid of the elitist atmosphere mentioned in the news posting.

Where would you like to see Glomdoring go?

Players need a more "neutral" org--make it into Gloriana.
-Bad idea. There is no real way to maintain neutrality in a conflict-oriented system like Lusternia. Plus you'd need to untaint the forest and night/crow before Serenwilde/celest accepted it, and then how would Mag consider it? It could also lead to a possible 3 untainted vs. 1 tainted situation, which would be bad.

Keep its current RP, but make it more welcoming.
-Feasible, but the change, as stated, needs to come from players as well as divine, but I disagree with how it's been attempted thus far with Viravain's attempted "seductions".

Let it go inactive and bring it back later as something new.
-One of the more feasible options, but then you get left with all these people with night/crow/etc., and nowhere to go.


What should happen to Viravain?
She should die.
-If the glomdoring goes, I'm in favour of this one, although an unaffiliated goddess of madness would be interested.

She should transform into something new.
-Nah. I remember what she used to be like.

She should stay the same but not be as involved in Glomdoring politics/policies.
-If the glomdoring continues, I'm in favour of this one. If by "the same" you mean her previous incarnation, who I was a fan of.

Not reading any other posts, 3 GMT is...well...that meeting won't have many, if any, european players at all. I'd have preferred it to be friday or saturday, so I can come out of my semi inactivity and have some fun.

Honestly Narsrim? I don't really know.

Up until a few days ago, we had been dealing with the Viravain who dictated policies, gave orders, was very involved etc. As one of the people who had been expected to execute the orders given, I can tell you, it was no party most of the time. Shayle didn't get her reputation for being what she is for making popular decisions. Most of them weren't mine. I took the heat for them. Playing Shayle is a challenge. I've certainly said it before.

If there was unhappiness with the way things were being done, that's fine too. I believe we followed a logical IC train of thought with the way we handled the very blatantly obvious not Viravain....I found the reaction to be, quite simply, insane.

Again, I'm very hurt by this. I don't like being the scapegoat for a situation created by someone else. I'm sorry that things didn't go as Estarra planned, but the misdirected anger is pretty uncool.

So again, I'd like my character back please.

I am personally a huge fan of Glomdoring and how it was made and how it was run. If I had to leave Serenwilde or I had nothing left holding me to it, it would be the place I would go. It has a wonderfully unique Role in the Game. I think Glomdoring did and -does- need to move towards converting people to them, and I think the newer role of Viravain was just a tiny bit over the line of what they needed.

So obviously, I voted for it to stay the same but become more inviting. Also, work on converting, you'd be surprised how many people would come after a bit of roleplay to show them it would be worth while. This includes newer and older players.

I did however vote for Viravain to change, more or less a blend of Her old self and Her new self. To still be the owner, the Mother, of Glomdoring yet do some attempts to lead players into Her web so to speak. Though, not blatent sexual means, but a way that shows that Glomdoring is the True and Only way.

The problem was Xenthos's post.

Shayle if you log in, you can have your charachter back...