Wouldn't that mean the gorgogs enemy as well? Since their leader seems to be quite sentient. As well as the orcs in Shallach Ruins, and the finks and gnomes?

Yes, it would mean that. If they are sentient, then yes they should remember their enemies too. That is how it is in plenty of the other games I have played. You kill sentient beings; your faction with them goes down. Eventually, your faction is so bad that they attack you on sight. It makes perfect sense in my mind, and it adds a bit of challenge to bashing sentient beings that should always be there. They are intelligent; they should act as such.

My point exactly. If we make every bashing spot enemyable, then people who'll just want some XP will be jump-able all the time. That's so much griefing that it'd turn 90% people away, almost immediately. Only ones who'd stay are total pacifists who even didn't bash in the first place, rabid PKers who think this is some kind of a God Wars game, and those who are so stubborn that they'd never leave even if Estarra turned into a tentacle monster and... ahem, used them up.

EDIT to Geb's post: the issue with enemy status isn't that mobs gang up on you. The issue is that you're not protected while on enemy territory.

I see wisdom in having vitae to ensure a measure of control on griefers, but it does provide for some lame ass byproducts.

For instance: I go to kill Turgeis for (insert one of about 4 reasons here). He tries to run, tries to run, tries to run, can't.. and as he's being pummeled, he says fine go ahead. I proceeded to newbiekick him to death, and he vitae'd and scoffed. Lame, period.

Also there are SO MANY death escapes that vitae really isn't needed. I'd vote for removing it.

I do not think finks or gnomes should enemy. Those currently live only in an area that you can access below level 21 so it would be a useless and annoying item on your enemies list. Likewise, I don't think it would in any way improve a newbie's impression of the game.

I'm tired so I'll use non-logical arguments here.

If Estarra, Roark and the rest of the staff wanted Vitae not to give Avechna status, and if they wanted a lot of sentient areas to give enemy status, I'm 100% sure they'd do it already.

If it happened, I'm sure Shamarah, Nico, Ixion, probably Murphy, Amaru, Malicia, Ethelon, Diamante and maybe even Aerenna (rest in peace) would be extremely happy. But the rest of the playerbase, especially those who can't defend themselves, wouldn't. Because it'd mean that instead of how it is now, when they can be jumped for no reason but don't really suffer a lot, they can be jumped for no reason and FORCED TO PRAY. FOR. NO. REASON. If you think it won't happen a lot, you have to be more realistic. If this change'd be implemented, a lot of random jumpings WOULD HAPPEN.

Short version: happy PKers, unhappy everyone else. Go play God Wars II.

Opposite example:

You go kill Turgeis, he tries to run and finds he can't so he starts to hit back, knowing he'll die but he wants to at least go down fighting. He dies and vitaes. You proceed to call him names and insult him, tricking him into attacking you right after the vitae (where no new declaring is needed) so he counts as aggressor and you can get the pray-kill for free.

Both examples are 'lame', not because of the system but because of the actors

Name one for Shadowdancers or Geomancers besides Immolation.

What kind of idiot actually attacks when they care about keeping suspect status?

Actually, screw that, what kind of idiot actually attacks Ixion while undeffed?

I don't like that idea... cause then, when I'm stupid (and let's face it, I am a lot! ) and forget I put my mending in my pack (cause that's how I see how many of what potion I have, I put them in my pack and then take them back out) and go hunt starsuckers and then die cause they broke something and I thought I mended it but I didn't I can't figure out why I'm not able to shield and they do their super duper attack on me.... I'll loose all my pretty leeches and starsuckers and essence balls! (this has happened)

Bad example, any nub knows not to hit due to it removing status. Also bad example because Ixion doesn't like insulting people.

Shouldn't you be hunting Ryanne, Hmmmm?

To Ixion and Sham:

To this topic: Nope, bad idea, NEXT

Isves=Ryanne, unless I'm missing something.

Bolded part: LIES.
You are one of the first people who ran away from me in combat (well, because reinforcements were getting in - I was a nooblet back then) then proceeded to threaten, and afterwards insult me in tells.

Well, just because both Ixion and Shamarah made it sound differently.. in my example Turgeis would have died twice and gotten suspect on Ixion. It would not have removed suspect.

/hijack

I think the best criterea for this is that they need to be intelligent and organized (i.e. have a leader). The gorgogs themselves aren't intellegent, even if their leader is, so they don't really fit. Shallach Ruins orcs are intellegent, but not really organized. Novice areas can be excluded since they're never a factor anyways after level 21.

The result is that there's a bunch of mid-level wilderness areas on prime to bash, and above that orcs, gorgogs (and sabre-toothed kitties?) that people can hunt before they start looking off-prime to the cats or astral. If people want the risk of getting jumped, they've got the option of aslaran/krokani/merian, just like they have the ur'dead right now if they want to risk enemy status. I can say right now that enemy status wouldn't stop me from hunting in the Moors, just make me be a little more careful.

Organizational areas would need to be carefully controlled though. Just the Krokani tower, Aslaran encampment, or the one isle with the merians. If I get jumped and escape into the moors where you finish me off, you're still going to get status like happens now.

Insults and goading are two different things. I'd love to see the log. Anyways, Lightzout

Edit: There are so many lamer tactics that bypass death/vitae in the first place. One of the more common types is hindering low level people so they die to gorgogs.

Here:





I agree, it wasn't a mistake I'd make if I were non-angry and non-tired. But who you are to blame - after all, we know that not being a primary english speaker makes you a retard, and it's a reason to laugh at others - ICly and OOCly. Right? Thought so. Like you too.

the biggest argument for removing vitae status is that is ruins RP. Someone said something about if we took it away RP would be gone, but as it is now-people will hunt Merians, for example, get killed and vitae-pick their merian corpses back up, smirk at their killer and continue hunting.

Obviously, this is NOT how vitae is supposed to be used. And if people are abusing the reason that vitae was implemented (to protect those who are WRONGLY being killed) then it needs to be changed.

RP is indeed the greatest part of Lusternia, but people really ruin that by hiding behind vitae.

In fact, I think there is an example of hraddon doing just that on the forums-it gives a perfect log of how it shouldn't be used

The problem is that this "vitae abuse" is rather rare. Especially if the vitaed person thinks the killer can bring friends to finish the job. If this change would be applied, the number of killings for no reason other than being a member of the wrong organisation (yes, that's anti-RP too!) would be at least 10 times as large as the abuses are now.


EDIT: Ixion, still waiting for your reply and explanation how it wasn't insulting OOCly and ICly.