1. Alter wyrdforest-over-forest message. Replace

with


2. Alter forest-over-wyrdforest message. Replace

with


3. Adjust room names and descriptions in the Glomdoring. Instead of using the
wyrd to describe mutations or any physical quality, emphasize that it is an
empowering destiny that should be served. This could also be true for skills in the
Crow and Night skillsets, although I'm not sure if any directly refer to the
corruptive power of Wyrd.

4. Have an event that introduces these changes, to clearly delineate the phase in
which Wyrd is an additive from when it is an objective. Allow the leaders of
Glom to work with key NPC's to formulate details of that ultimate goal, but
reinforce the view that anyone or anything that does not contribute to the Wyrd
and hence Glomdoring has little inherent value, and that using all methods of
persuasion including force to fulfil the Wyrd is important. The actual destiny of
the Wyrd itself should be kept general, and speak simply of all things achieving
their greatest potential and power.


I think these changes are minor enough mechanically that they would not consume very much coder time at all, but they would have a drastic effect upon the political and roleplay position of the organization.

Edit edit: I know people don't want me to keep harping on about Glomdoring, but I really, really like the concept... just not the implementation. I'm not trying to be critical or insulting or force enormous changes on the players, I'm trying to compromise with simple, achievable changes that will improve what I consider to be flaws.

(Note: the forest is described as 'dark and oppressive' in the sense that it feels claustrophobic, not 'dark and oppressed' in the sense that it is in pain or imprisoned against its will, even though converting to the Wyrd might have been.)

not bad.

I am a bit dissapointing in Glomdoring players right now though, so don't take my comment to mean anything.

I like! Neato Burrito.

Sorry, I don't like this at all. I think it would change what Glomdoring is fundamentally, and what drew me to it. It's not just a dark forest: it's a blighted forest, and perversely, its inhabitants have come to love that blight and see it as the natural and right state of things. It's that perverse, counterintuitive RP that I find fascinating and fun about Glomdoring, and turning it into a more generic dark forest would be a waste.

I like my locusts. I don't get it, Elryn. De-emphasising blight and emphasising a fairly neutral creed (special destiny, guidance by the Spirits) would blur the lines between Glomdoring and Serenwilde's views and beliefs even further, which you've complained about in the past. If anything, Glom could use a little more sickly, macabre stuff.

Also, I don't gather from your description what changes you'd expect to see in Glom's political position.

EDIT: I keep adding to this post. Glom's getting RP-change whiplash. Let's stop redefining what it is and changing its position and give it a chance to reach a stable baseline as something, anything. We've gone through a few too many changes, and it's horribly disorienting, and hard to explain to newer players.

But that's really cool! Super gross, but cool!

No. Right now, Glomdoring believes pretty much everything of importance that Serenwilde does. There's no real difference other than that Glomdoring does it with the Wyrd. Sure, the four spirits have slightly different teachings - but they certainly aren't fundamental differences.

This change would actually have the reverse effect of what you believe. All its existence, Glomdoring has been tainted in some form or another, so that it is mutated, sickly, etc. Despite this, they have continually made every step towards becoming identical with Serenwilde philosophically, so the choice between Glomdoring and Serenwilde is more about what flavour of skill messages you like, rather than an actual cultural shift that views the world quite differently from all other nations. I suspect in part this is responsible for difficulty in attracting a diverse range of players.

I believe this change away from external insanity/mutation imposed upon the organization would create an opportunity for more interesting and individual plots and roles. If the actual forest and its inhabitants were 'normal' but CHOSE to be cruel, manipulative, destructive and dominating for reasons which in their culture are compelling, so much more is possible for characters that join than just a duplicate of what goes on in Magnagora, but with leaves. I don't want all the gory skills removed, nor the emphasis to shift from merciless murder, evil subterfuge and terrible cruelties. I just don't want an external 'taint' to be the underpinning of the community. We already have a nation with that profile.

Edit: I should also note, that although the 'perverse', irrational RP of "grr... arg... I'm mutated... buahaha" might draw to a number of players, it clearly isn't drawing as many as it should. How much less generic evil Glomdoring could be if there was purpose behind the cruelty, and a culture that uses foul and terrible forces not because they are just 'evil' or foul themselves, but because they value other things far more than the accepted status quo or real-world morality.

I certainly don't want to see a generical dark forest, or neutral commune any more than you do, and I wish there was enough of a push away from that already that this kind of change wasn't necessary. However, I think the suggested change to the Wyrd can only have positive benefits for Glomdoring.

I don't like the current message. Locust = Poison gas. Wyrd = taint. Switch around the Geos and the Bts tainting/wyrding and it is practically the same message

There's no going around that and I thought that Gloms didn't like that

I don't like the current message. It's bad grammar. Then I thought the Glom's didn't like that.

I really don't think there's anything wrong with Glomdoring's RP flavour that needs to be addressed with mechanical changes. The potential is entirely there to treat the Wyrd as a destiny and an imperative. The next step needs to come through player RP, and I'll venture that the reason it hasn't happened is because we've all had a lot of other things to worry about, which tends to take one's mind off of big RP initiatives, and also because, as long as Viravain was absolute, there was an official "party line" on everything, which didn't include Wyrd as destiny. This is a direction of RP I've been interested in for a long time. Give things a chance to develop now.

In general, I'm unhappy about the trend in this game to substitute big plots resulting in mechanical changes for player-driven RP, which only reduces the initiative for player-driven RP. When the rules keep changing and the rug keeps getting yanked out from under your feet, it's hard to come up with RP directions at anything other than the individual level.

As for characters choosing to be manipulative, dominating, cruel... Well, in a world in which people pop up with no memory of their past and choose freely and reversibly to align themselves with whichever nation suits their ideology, the people who see a twisted, deformed, blighted forest as beautiful are making a pretty resounding choice. They're there because they're self-deluded (a very fun thing to play out!) and with a penchant for cruelty and darkness. Substituting the physical reality of blight, which confronts characters daily and which they daily have to ignore, with a nebulous, no-values-attached destiny will only water down RP and tone Glom down into a neutral org.

With respect to playerbase considerations - let things play out. I'm convinced that our low playerbase has nothing to do with RP, and everything to do with politics. Those politics have just undergone a massive, massive change, there's freedom in the air, and we're seeing our highest population in a good long while. Things are changing.

Last, Elryn, if you're so interested in Glomdoring, why don't you join and try to make some of these changes happen? I'm a little wary of people who haven't had a significant character there trying to change things for those of us who've invested a lot of time in Glomdoring as it is. As it stands, if something changes for the worse, you've got nothing on the line, and we're the ones who have to deal with it.

Apologies for the essay. Brevity and I aren't on good terms.

You don't have to apologise, obviously I have trouble with short posts as well.

Well, I've sort of been hoping that eventually Glomdoring will become a place that I'd like to join.

I was in the original Summer Court, working for Gloriana... even though we knew that the admin would go with the majority and bring about the easy version of a tainted commune. For now I just can't justify taking Elryn to Glomdoring although I've been sorely tempted multiple times (Viravain has 'seduced' the poor little guy quite a bit in the past), because its a huge cost in terms of lessons, manse adjustments, and close friendships made distant. There's also the small matter that every time I try to become unenemied, I am refused.

Having tried a little Ebonguard there for a while, I think I would be pretty unhappy with a main in the orgs current form. That's the truth, I don't think I would enjoy it. At least at the time I joined 'to make a difference' the clash of cultures between the communes grated on me, it was more like they felt they were the equal but opposite obligatory 'dark side' of nature/serenwilde, which I found quite difficult to take up when combined with the skills/history/messages. I know the players made some -wonderful- RP between themselves and it was a very mature and friendly atmosphere to go into... but I personally was never able to get a grasp on just what the essence of the place was about. At least, not the unique part, although I know for all the wonderful people who stayed it must have been there somewhere.

I really would like to see a non-tainted version of Glomdoring, although I'm not really expecting anything significant to change. So I thought I'd explain with these message ideas at least what is possible, rather than the basic corruptive/normal model.


As an aside, I'd also like to point out that the choices of Glomdoring's leadership (or perhaps just certain admin, I don't know) have previously had quite significant negative effects on those of us who invested a lot of time in other orgs. Even though I don't have a character in Glomdoring, it is quite clear that changes to appease one nation can definitely affect other players.

Me neither. I don't want to be associated with the Wyrd. We're the ones who vomit poison gas, dammit.

Sounds like you wanted a different organisation instead of Glomdoring, and still want this. The changes you're proposing would transform create something else instead of Glomdoring, which is not fair to the current players of Glomdoring at all. Corruption is a huge part of that "essence" of Glomdoring. It's twisted, it's been through a lot, and the way the characters deal with the scars left by that history is the most fascinating thing about the place.

Glomdoring's one of the coolest concepts ever to grace an IRE game, and I don't want to see it changed merely with a forest with a dark outlook. I also really don't understand why you think Glom in its current form is too similar to Serenwilde, but an untainted, uncorrupted, unwyrded Glom would polarise things! You dismiss the teachings of the different Spirits as pretty minor philosophical differences - but they're huge, and with huge cultural differences surrounding how they're adopted. Serenwilde's a pretty liberal place, where some people can happily argue about (even, in the extreme, ignore) something handed down by one of the Spirits and follow their private beliefs. In Glomdoring, whatever comes from the Spirits becomes reality for the characters. Glomdoring's a study in false perception and self-delusion. Characters will say a lot of the same things that Serenwilders say about Nature and the fae, maybe (especially in the interests of diplomacy), but what they will do will always serve Glomdoring.


The choices of Serenwilde's leadership have also affected Glomdoring in the past, quite detrimentally and for a long time, costing Glom players and a lot of frustration. That didn't entail a radical change of what Serenwilde was.

Lastly, let me reiterate that what Glom badly needs right now is a little freedom for the player leadership and a little time in which no significant RP changes take place, so that we can finally reach a happy baseline, which we were not able to do so long as dictatorial and shortsighted admin decisions kept getting handed down to us.

So, I'm curious enough to bump this thread.

After Glomdoring's crisis meeting that people refused to speak about, has this singularly unique nation with such a rich and emotive (albeit neglected) background improved noticeably enough that it doesn't need this sort of change? Out of all the nations, Glomdoring has always been the one with the most beautiful and powerful atmosphere, even though it has consistently missed the opportunity to capitalize on it.

So... how exactly has Glomdoring's RP been changed and improved, and its place in the world adjusted?

Just come and find out for yourself, it.

I mean, we've let in Soll. How can we turn you away?

Okay, postscript: the arguments raised in this thread stem from the two visions/versions/states of Glomdoring, which are sometimes in Glomdoring. These are Night Glomdoring and Crow Glomdoring. Night Glomdoring is like the changes that Elryn wants: smooth, subtly different. It's sociopathic. Crow Glomdoring is like what's still there in some places: harsh, delusional, corrupted. It's psychopathic.

I want to write a Rhysus essay on that difference now. Might do that on the weekend.

Everything that was discussed has been implemented. The only difference/surprise to myself was that Viravain's name didn't change.

What were those things?

I would tell you, but I would have to kill you and hang your corpse from the Moonhart tree by your entrails...again.