Yes.



No.

Sadly Daganev has it right on this one.

Nexus isn't that big a challenge compared to getting people past their first few defeats, in my experience. And I was replying to Gandal...unless the 'sadly' comment was not connected to the no.

You're right, but I think you missed the real major reason that it's "way harder than it sounds."

The sadly part was that Daganev snagged the best way to get good fighters (as opposed to whoever it was suggesting you "get new players, get them excited" etc. etc.), it wasn't about your comment to Gandal in particular.

Ah, okay.

And yes, it's sad. Especially since I've always tried to work in training for combat, and I don't know anyone outside Lusty...

I was talking about the sheer difficulty of getting absolutely fresh new players to Lusty (not from other IRE) and getting them to become fighters. Nexus is one big reason. I ask a coding question and they just say to not use Nexus.

Personally I'd have to say that one of the major problems with Glomdoring is that it's environment isn't all that friendly to new players. I mean everyone is expected to think and act exactly the same as the shadow court or they get in trouble. I think some of the rules and regulations are a bit extreme... for example people arent allowed to reply to a shout about ANYTHING at all without getting in trouble for it. and if a novice or -anyone- had a new idea or opinion on something in glomdoring that one member of the shadow court didnt like, they will get seriously in trouble for it. I know i've had novice characters in glomdoring who've mentioned some small thing they believe about interpretations of history or religious things, etc. but Shayle didnt agree with so she yelled at them and threatened to remove them if they disagreed with her again. The strictness of it is impossible and extremely uninviting to new players. it allows for very little room to create personal RP's within the game that have to do wtih any sort of religious ritual or belief or even personal interpretation or freedom.

I asked what has changed to address Glomdoring's internal concerns, because for players outside those ingame guilds there is no visibility to the process. I wasn't looking for either the literature or the playerbase to change, I just wanted to know how things were progressing.

The original point of the thread was to improve the gameworld in a subtle way that 1) won't distressingly affect the Glomdoring playerbase and 2) would address issues with the Serenwilde/Glomdoring relationship.


Perhaps. I believe there is something truly wrong, and the approach taken with Glomdoring's implementation contains quite a few lessons which might be invaluable to avoiding mistakes in the future. I believe many players have been adversely affected by the implementation and events of Glomdoring, unintentionally by those involved I'm quite certain, but nonetheless something worth discussing and addressing.

I also don't believe the rest of the playerbase is missing it. I've discussed many Glomdoring issues with other affected players both now and throughout its evolution, and they are not inconsequential to them either. One wonders whether the attitude of certain key ingame leaders in denying and decrying any concerns or different approaches may have contributed to Glomdoring's descent to crisis meeting level. Surely not, for said leaders would certainly have stepped down or been removed if they were unwilling to compromise and improve, should they not realize the old "my way is best!" wasn't working for them. Should such a poor state of affairs ever arise, perhaps a few "my way is better, actually" might just be a good thing?


I do not believe it is the responsibility of the players to predict huge paradigm shifts and environment rewrites that undermine what they have reasonably come to expect is the virtual world reality. In that sense, yes, I'm unhappy with the way Glomdoring the concept (not the players) has affected the reality of Lusternia in the past. Am I being a bit of a baby? As peurile as that insult is, maybe you're right. I can only hope that mistakes can be acknowledged so as to be avoided in the future, and the current level of consistency and immersion improved wherever possible to make Lusternia the best world it can be. I believe the admin are very receptive to this.

You needn't worry though, I am in the process of communicating my concerns directly (slower than I should be taking, sorry!), and I won't harp about them anymore here.

That would be me who suggested the above. We all remember what it was like being new players and new to the rapture system (the engine/system that all IRE games are crafted from). I remember my Imperian character and how I had no clue on what I was doing. Though, thanks to a group of people, I became half way decent with triggers, aliases, variables, et cetera. When I started coding, that just made it more understandable. When new players arrive, they're pulled by the appeal of an endless world unlike anything they've experienced, as far as MUDs are concerned. If you leave the new players out to dry and ignore their potential, you're handicapping not only your organization but also the game itself. Without new players, fresh or IRE knowledgable, no MUD stands a chance. Ever.

Glomdoring has an excellent group of people. (Yes, I still keep my eye on them. I could never forget the Living Forest. Though, I do it through the forums now) With those people, both experience and inexperienced, teach them what an alias can do, what a trigger can do, and what variables you can use to perform a given task. I remember Nayl teaching someone I loathed IC, because when he came back and I used the healer ability (trans) to send all the ailments he threw at me back at him, he was healing himself left and right as if he were a professional duelist.

So explain to your would-be fighters that they will lose more than they win at first. It, unfortunately, comes with the territory. Send them out into the forest and perform fake raids, like someone suggested. Create fun games like "arsenal tag" where you tag someone by giving them a series of afflictions that they have to take the initiative to heal. Come together as one organization instead of three seperate guilds and discuss how you can create a formidable team as a single and steadfast unit. Find ways to mix your skills into one powerful second-based attack and see which combination makes it difficult for the opponent to break out of. These are just a few suggestions. I'm sure you can think of more.

There is always a solution to a problem. And the solution to this problem is right at your fingertips and in your imaginations.

I think you're misevaluating the whole situation. It's easy enough to teach someone who already has the inclination (and vast amounts of credits) to learn. It's quite another to "get people excited" and all the rest of it. If people want to fight, it's up to the org to teach them. If people don't want to fight, there's bugger all you can do about it.

The "losing a lot" thing also doesn't help but that's not even the main problem. Daganev's solution is just the best. All you can do, really.

I entirely understand what you're saying, but I would add this little coda. While many agree with you (if you ever fancy amusing yourself, talk to Narses on this topic and he will wax lyrical about how crappily restrictive Glomdoring is and how he's much happier in Serenwilde), many other newbies find exactly those things you've complained about absolutely wonderful. I've heard a great deal from both sides of the fence.

Breaking down your points a bit, I entirely agree with the Glomdoring attitude to Shouts, and would have the same in Magnagora if I could.

As far as a strictness of RP is concerned, think about it this way. Occasionally, I write a little - not flaming posts or absolute bollocks for the library system - but little whimsical things of my own. I find writing in prose relatively difficult - I can't just sit down and write, as I need to have ideas first and a structure, and I'm quite capable of sitting for ages with pen in hand, getting no where. However, if I impose some sort of rule on myself, whether it be an order of vowels or a strict poetical meter, I find composition much easier. Believe it or not, this isn't some paradoxical oddity about myself but a well documented observation.... and I think the same rule can be applied to Glom. If you're one of those who can write endless prose then Glom might not be for you, but if you fancy a challenge and you find restrictions creatively useful, then it's a wonderful place to be.

I'm not entirely sure that made sense. I will leave it to subsequent flamers to inform me of its validity.

I understood that pretty well. Restrictions do force creativity for a lot of people, myself included.

I also wouldn't mind Glomdoring's shouting policy. Mostly Seren tend to be better with it than Magnagorans or Celestians, but none of that stupidity at all would be better yet.

i agree there is a lot of stupidity from shouts but this is from shouting absolutely any single thing whether it be a divine request for help or shouting thank you to someone, or telling someone to shut the stupidity up frnakly if you dont like shouts you can just turn your shouts off, they are there for a reason and were given to us freely, that shouldnt be restricted by a group of people who are too lazy to turn them off. and yeah I can understand what yall mean about the creativity thing Aiakon,t hats partly why it wasnt for me. I need to be free creatively to think, believe and act how I please, Serenwilde was better for htat for me and actually Magnagora fits the best with my style and theres no where else I'd rather be, cept for a few people I have problems with but those are easy to handle. however just becuase I can understand it doesnt mean I have to like the strict and harshness of it towards it's players and unfriendliness to new players who are yelled at for the smallest thing. yes it's good for people who want that sort of environment but alot of noobs dont know what they're getting themselves into and joint hat commune right away are yelled at for the smallest things and will alot of times quit the game entirely right away because they think everyone is like that.

Seconded.

You may be right, but I'll need solid fact before I accept that.

other than having seen it with my own eyes many times while I was in Glomdoring (frankly I was hte only one with any compassion for people who'd been verbally assaulted without reason by communemates) tahts the only fact I have

What a load of crap.

hardly a load of crap. seen it with my own eyes thanks. sorry.

Well, I'm very sure that there are reasons shouts are discouraged. Although I do not know the exact reasoning behind it, I've been adviced to not shout before, so I have at least an idea.

Firstly, asking for help can be done on the gnt or citytell, and thanking someone can be done through tells. All these things will simply clutter shouts if not stopped. In fact, I'm fairly certain that no one is allowed to do such things through shouts.
Secondly, both Crow and Night advocate hiding knowledge from others. Shouting would definately go against these two teachings.
And of course, shouting for people to shut up is simply annoying, useless in achieving silence and gives a very bad impression of Glomdoring.

Also, people being yelled at very usually deserves yelling. Shayle is one of the most patient person I've ever met, and Xenthos is one of the nicest. They don't make up Glomdoring, but Shayle seems to take the flak almost all the time people complain about Glomdoring. She's strict, but she's not as impossible as you think. She gives chances, and very likely you don't get to see that. And you may see her yelling for no reason, but actually, you just don't see the reason. I should know. I've been 'yelled' at before.

I'll have to agree with Aiakon. I've interpreted the teachings of Night with my own personal twist on them, and I've never been scolded for that. I'm curious though, what exactly did you say that would make Shayle threaten expulsion?

And Emmy, please slow down, and use paragraphs. It is rather hard to read your posts.

Who are you again? I think I'd notice if newbies were being yelled at randomly over stupid things, being a part of the council and all.

yall seem to think my problem is with shayle or shouts. it's not. Kaervas I was a member of Glomdoring a long time ago before you were, back when Bau was the guildmistress of the Blacktalon, it happened then and it's happened now with novices I've created myself or friends who have novices, who it is doesn't matter. My entire point is that it is in fact too strict and hardly welcoming or friendly to novices and no it doesnt always deserve being yelled at. I've witnessed events where people are scolded, severely, for having a differing opinion from other members of glomdoring or the Shadow Court. if you have an opinion that isnt the same as hte shadow court your not allowed to voice it, even respectfully and are often reprimanded or scolded for doing so if you. thats my point. too harsh, too uninviting. *shrug*