But what Kaervas means is that we need to see some examples, because that doesn't fit what many of the rest of us see.

It's all well and good to say, "I expressed an opposing opinion respectfully and got yelled at for it," but that's a very subjective evaluation. Maybe it seemed respectful to you, but not to the hearers. Maybe you felt like you got yelled at, but the person didn't think they were being harsh.

It would help us out if we knew exactly what happened, if you're going to say that Glomdoring's problem is that it's too unfriendly to novices. I haven't had that experience at all, so some specific examples would help me, for instance, understand your point more clearly.

The real truth of things is that Glomdoring actually treats its novices with far more attention and care than anyone would really ever believe.

I remember how well Emmy did in Glomdoring. I'm not even remotely surprised about your non-relevant complaints. I will concede that Glomdoring is not for everyone and definitely not for Emmy. Beyond that, your posts are based entirely on...what exactly?

Actually surprisingly Emmy did fairly well in Glomdoring. Guild wise anyways. I mean she was a Secretary for a while. but your right Glomdoring definately wasn't for her cuz she was too opinionated and had too many beliefs that the rest of Glomdoring didn't. thats fine my beef aint with Emmy, I'm not trying to insult anyone here, every one roleplays as they see fit I mean it's just a game right. I'm just expressing my beliefs based on what I have witnessed, if others feel differently thats their choice, but my feeling that it's unfriendly to novices obviously has at least -some- relevance to it considering that summit that was held to address issues about the type of environment it gives off to novices, it was for reasons other than mine obviously but the fact that it's an unfriendly enviornment for novices for whatever reasons people find, is still there.

Alright let me try and think of a specific example. alright if your looking for direct quotes you wont get em but heres one thats to the best I can explain it. a discussion with shayle took place that I witnessed with a novice who'd just recently stepped from the portal at the time tried explaining to another novice when asked what exactly happened with the Kethuru and Gloriana thing and mentioned that she felt that while Glomdoring (before it was wyrded) was not tainted but had been "touched" by the taint instead, shayles response was very harsh, yelling at that novice and severely reprimanding her for having such an opinion instead of calmly explaining to the novice what the shadow courts view is and making it sound like what they beleive is pure fact when really all of it is opinion. yes it's fact that they aren't tainted but if you read the histories and stuff, views about whether it was touched by taint or not, is completely and totally opinion. but yeah thats just one example I can think of.

Well, see, this is exactly why quotes would help substantiate your impression.

Leaving aside the fact that's a little odd that a novice "who'd just recently stepped from the portal" would be lecturing anyone on the history of the Basin and finer points of the Taint's relationship to Glomdoring, much of your criticism depends very highly on you thinking, "Well, that was harsh," which is a fine opinion for you to have, but it doesn't establish a critique.

It is key to Glomdoring's RP as far as I can tell that there is no, "This is our view, but this is just our opinion. All other views are equally valid." If someone from the Shadow Court said that, the world would explode.

And I like that, personally. That's why I chose to RP in Glomdoring. But you have to be willing to appreciate that sort of paradigm, and if you don't - well, there's plenty of other places to go, and that's the way it should be.

You should not claim the Blacktalon as an example of your success. You, more than anyone else, drove Yeralih and I to exasperation. You, more than anyone else, are the reason we collapsed, said that secretaries are useless, roadblocks, and started making arrangements to restructure things.

No. Just no.

pardon? I never said anything like that about secretaries. not did I make arrangements to restructure things. I spoke to Emar and Josun about stuff that they brought up with me to begin with, they asked me for opinions, I gave them, they told me things they were planning to do and asked my help, I offered it, and then when it became a "poor idea" I was given the credit of coming up with it, even though I didn't and any good idea I came up with was given credit to someone else. thats all I ever did regarding these "arrangements" you speak of which were non-existent. get your facts right before you lecture me on what I did and didnt do. and for that matter don't blame me for your pathetic collapse. I had nothing to do with it. if your guild collapses its your fault not mine, dont blame me. now as I said I wasnt trying to insult anyone so please stop trying to insult me. ok?



meh was too long ago to remember direct quotes. and as for the novice, she was asked specifically by that other person. and novices can read the histories you know.

Glomdoring seems to be treating their novices fairly well. I certainly haven't seen any scoldings of the degree you're implying. However, it can quickly become a difficult or uneasy roleplay for some people to live by, especially for people new to MUDs as a whole.

Let me rephrase. You said Emmy did quite well in Glomdoring, at least guild-wise, because she was a secretary for a while. I say no. Your ineptitude as secretary (first act as secretary in charge of culture: "We shouldn't focus so much on Crow. Let's teach the druids about Night.") was the catalyst to get all five secretaries removed. You're right, you didn't do anything in the restructuring. We did. You just inspired it.

Everyone needs to knock off the personal attacks right now.

Thank you.

the teaching about Night idea was Emar's idea thank you, he told me to do it and I listened

I would like to refute the idea that you cannot have alternate beliefs in Glomdoring. You just need to handle them with tact and deliberation. I hold a significantly different interpretation of Crow then Shayle (and a good chunk of the commune). Likewise, my imeditations on some of the spirits differ from Daganev's. I've even followed a god from outside the Wyrd, for a time. Yet I'm GR6/CR4, with a secretary position and a cordial relationship with both.

Remind me why I can't differ from the party line?

*phew*

I thought you were saying that it was sad that I was correct about something...



Sheesh... you'd think people would know not to talk publicly about the realities of Glomdoring! Our reputation is everything!

There is a similar example in real life but I'll leave that out.

One last thing...

what about the MERCILESS FOREST can't people understand?

*shrug* again. just my opinion

Oh there was that too, I just figured Hazar would take that part for granted.



Kidding.

OMG somethinks I did a good job! Yay! Thats heartwarming to hear

It might be worth remembering this thread to understand Elryn's position and perspective and to see why a lot of other people have struggled with how Glomdoring has been done.

I think this quote in particular is helpful in seeing his viewpoint:

I think that situation would be nice. It would not leave anybody screwed.

I appreciate this.

I disagree overall, and I like Glomdoring the way it is currently, but this helps me understand some of the historical viewpoints and issues that predate me and why not everyone is as star-struck as I am.

So, thanks for bringing that thread up. It does help me see both sides of the fence a little better.

Except Daganev.

(No one is surprised.)