Heh, silence had no chance of being intimidating. Before she could reply Lusternia crashed and everyone was kicked. It would have ruined the effect.

Are all the Serens posting here still forgetting that it's their own silence and arrogance that brought this on their heads?

Sorry, what?

No I totally understand that there were absolutely no other factors involved.

Really, it's a few things that started this, including the overall fall of Celest/Serem relations, Celest citizens wanting to get rid of the Celestwilde label, bringing Ixion/Athana into Serenwilde without even telling Celest (They are pretty much #1 hated couple there is). However, if Serenwilde had just said "We will ban hunting angels if you ban hunting/converting fae," rather then letting people raid willy nilly and no reply from the council, everything would have been fine. From Celests POV, we asked the raiding stop, Serens said they'd talk about it, raids kept going, no reply from the Wilde, what choice did we have?

*Edit I do think no matter what happened, Celest would have eventually declared war unless Celest or Serenwilde had a major paradigm shift. I can't speak for Serenwilde, but anti-wilde feelings were growing slowly but steadily in Celest.

No, it's pretty clearly Serenwilde's fault for being too thick to treat the Celestians the way they themselves expected to be treated.

Golden rule, mother****ers. Golden rule.

We have to tell Celest when we're inducting people into Serenwilde? Dear lord, imagine all the mistakes weve made!

I do see where you are coming from. However, Celest and Serenwilde are about equal in starting this whole thing, things on both sides could have been done to prevent this sure, we know that. We can sit and play the Blame Game all we want, but in this case we both mostly all wanted to do something different, and we got difference. Neither of us see the Basin as the exact same, the stagnant Light/Pure vs Taint/Wyrd is no more. Its all mixed up and shows that the organizations are not the stereotypes theyve been seen as for the past two years.

Its been awesome, fighting, yet the stresses are starting to gain on the players. A lot of people got shooken up and had to fight against friends and family, which bothered some. Also, it limited trade functions for a bit as both sides had to find ways of letting their members get necassary items such as the enchanted items for Serenwilde and Alchemic items for Celest.

edit: Xavius, dwell deeper into what you mean please?

Serenwilde: Stop killing fae or else!

Celest: Ok, done.

Serenwilde: Woot! *raidraidraid*

Celest: WTF? Stop killing angels or else!

Serenwilde: WTF, no! *raidraidraid*

Celest: We said stop killing angels.

Serenwilde (cricket noises)

Celest: You have three months. Stop killing angels.

Serenwilde *raid*

---------------------------

No, there is no "equal blame" with any sort of real historical perspective. Serenwilde was arrogant. Serenwilde's leadership was either unable or unwilling to control the lower Serens. Serenwilde believed that, because it was so much bigger, and because they had what they believed to be superior military forces, it didn't matter what Celest thought.

Karma's a

You forgot this:

Celest: You have five months.

Serenwilde: WTF NO! *raids*

Celest: Well, three months is up. Screw waiting!



edit: And Shamarah would purposefully bother Serenwilde by stealing fae and popping in around Serenwilde and annoying people.

Yes, good, you understand now.

That's why ultimately, I think it would have been unavoidable. People in Celest were getting fed up with (and I personally blame the forums for this slightly more then IC reasons) being callled "serenwilde's lapdogs." I do blame the forums, since intra org. chit chat doesn't happen much, but it is true when a member of Serenwilde would join Celest they'd always say what a joke Celest is over, etc. Personally, I'm quite glad to see us change things up a bit, and the whole affair has proven fun and challenging. It's was nice to see things go into total war for a while there, where every citizen was raiding Ethereal, and the whole city was on it's toes. Really goes to show what can happen when two orgs get devoted to smashing eachother.

You win

Umm... doesn't this kind of add to his point?

Of course I do, I just have my own opinions on the matter. And frankly its this, neithers innocent.


I never said we didnt raid, all Ive said is neithers innocent. Our three members did raid, Celest gave us five months and before that time was up we had a war.

Your post kind of says otherwise... you kept on raiding, Celest decided not to wait since there was no further point in waiting. They were giving you the time to talk about things and come to an agreement, but when the agreement is "we'll just keep attacking," there's no reason to wait.

The Chinese have this blissfully unique sentence called "death penalty with parole." The idea is that you're sentenced to die, but you get one year to substantially turn your life around...and finish up all of your business, just in case your parole board hearing goes poorly. However, if you commit a second crime in that year, do you think your execution is still delayed?

Read my reply to you.


My opinions do not need to be liked, but theyre mine. Ive said how I felt, Ive said what Ive seen. I do believe that over time, it has become a tit for a tat. To say Celest hasnt done anything isnt true, just like it would be to say Serenwilde hasnt. Weve all done things to each other, Serenwilde is hardly innocent. Yeah, Celest wanted this 'alliance' to end just as much as we did, and it ended. Would you say it was for the better or not?

And to the origional question, no, things are different no matter where you look. Someone mentioned already that Celest has smaller numbers, but their people are higher in combat skill, while we have huge numbers and fewer combatants.

Please don't tell me that you buy into the postmodern "All ideas are created equal" doctrine. I had nothing against you as a player. Don't change that now.

Is your opinion rooted in reality? Do you have a different idea of how this came about, other than Serenwilde demanding security (and having it given to them!) and refusing to return the gesture? Do you feel that this was unexpected? Random senseless violence from Celest? Simply that they got tired of being called "Celenwilde," even though there are heaps and heaps of documented evidence and in-game posts explaining otherwise?

In the base, neither are innocent. In the detail, ones more guilty than the other. I wont deny that.

How is neither innocent? Celest, in the interest of maintaining positive relationships, agreed to Serenwilde's demands! Celest put its neck out on the line for you! Either Vesar >>>>> Nejii, or this is 100% Serenwilde's fault.