Well since it's a delayed cure it'll almost always tic at least once before cured. So that's the initial hit plus a tic. Now if you add banshee to that.. for me this usually means ~3k mana of ~7k mana gone (almost) instantly. If I forgot earwort and have to focus body it'll be even more. That -does- sound close to instant toad for me, especially in choke.

EDIT: To compare, one lash does about 900 to me, one succumb tic ~1200. That's with trans magic and all.

EDIT2: Also, succumb is a passive drain while lash is active. If you lash you cannot hex or in another way keep your offence up and thus hinder your opponent from sipping mana or curing. With succumb you afflict them once and then just keep hexing.. simply said in 1 vs 1 succumb is vastly superior.

I know the argument of 'but multiple people can lash and only one can succumb'. I remember when we toaded Caoilfhin yesterday. Even with two lashing it took quite a while. Having her succumbing + three banshees and a crapload of hexes would probably have been a lot faster.

This is the part Soraka should pay attention to

5290h, 7015m, 6670e, 10p, 21900en, 29400w ex<>-/08:35:02.265/-rm
rm

Message #5931 Sent by: Krellan
05/02 05:27 ""
5290h, 7015m, 6670e, 10p, 21900en, 29400w ex<>-/08:35:28.031/-

Well usually it took like 5 seconds to read messages.. now it's 26.. definitely not getting better.

EDIT: Though I'm really starting to wonder. Does this lag just you or other people too (like some claim)?

(Order): Arel says, "Nihmriel knows more about my body than I do."

--wait, what?

I took around 1/4 of my max mana from succumb's initial hit. So two people succumb, one person curses, that's a three person insta-toad.

Succumb doesn't stack. But do the initial hits?

Well from what I was told you can't succumb again if they are already afflicted. If you have succumb and get hit by it again it'll only drain like 200 mana. Never had that happen to me, this is just what I've been told. *shrug*

Still, initial hit + one tic are enough to get most people to half or even below (especially with banshee and in choke or if they just get blastered with hexes).

stun succumb toad would work for a two person instant kill depending on strength :/
though of course you could do it eaiser with three.

Uhh, no, it wouldn't.

You can't stack succumb. One succumb won't get you below half if you have any magic whatsoever (and even if you have no magic, one succumb won't drop you below half if you're a decent level).

Now, add on bleeding and the like and it may get a bit sketchier, but succumb itself isn't THAT strong, and it's certainly not stronger than 3 people lashing-- because it cannot stack.

However, succumb + 2 trans crow users cawing would be pretty nasty.

(As a note, I can pretty much tank succumb at level 85, without using a healing scroll. It hurts, yes, but so do most aqua staves, certain warrior weapons, and so on and so forth, and it's certainly tankable. Note that my Magic level is only Fabled, as well. Not quite trans.)

you must not have been hit with it lately since even Forren has admitted to it's overpowered ness. and i know one succumb won't get you down, but two can. thereby stun+succumb (not the same person doing it, but two different people at the same time) will pretty much get you two tics depending on the length of the stun or if in choke will definately get you two tics if the stun lasts longer than a second. and then you're open to toad by a third. or when the stunner gets balance if the stunner is another shadowdancer or just a third party who is a shadowdancer

three people lashin is easy to tank because you can shield. if you're hit with succumb you can't just shield you've got to cure it and worry about other attacks

I can tank succumb -surged-.

dunno if I was a shadowdancer I'd be pretty confident in the skills...already have a hex set in mind too.

Yes, I've been hit with it recently (see above). Its formula is supposed to be 10% + 200 at inept magic, and 10% flat at trans magic. Even two hits (four ticks total maximum, two minimum) shouldn't get you below half at trans magic.

This means that it should take five ticks of succumb to get you to half at trans magic if you don't cure yourself at all beyond eating reishi. That's about 3 casts of succumb. Yes, it gets a bit faster with the Shadowdancer Fae, but it's still not half in two casts if you're sipping / eating sparkleberry / reading a scroll, especially if you invoke a circle at the correct time (same as you would against any other class when you need a short break from their offence). If they're breaking your shield, they're not succumbing.

Choke makes it difficult, but-- don't fight a Shadowdancer in Choke unless you're prepared to deal with it. Geb's been working on learning how to fight in Choke, and as far as I'm aware, he hasn't given up on it yet. He has it pretty bad being a warrior against a Wiccan, but a Wiccan v. Wiccan in choke should have fewer problems if you're careful (and if you throw together some triggers).

Edit: There was a time when Succumb truly was extremely overpowered. It always did a minimum of 800 mana damage, no matter what. That truly did need nerfing. I don't see this 10% modification that was put in to replace it as being anywhere near as strong.

i'd rather fight a shadowdancer in choke. i'd pretty much rather fight about anyone in choke. Geb though has more ideal specialization for choke though. he could definately use 25 dart traps in the room to his advantage as well as being a two hander and just a ridiculously good fighter in general. Too bad diamante's not around too often, i liked to watch them fight

It's really easy. I calculated that I actually sip for a higher percentage of my maxmana if I am surged than if I am not surged, talking about ~3% here. Of course, this would prolly be negated by the fact of the constant, but small, manadrain surge has, but still. Usually, succumb ticks for around 600 for me, and since it has a variable ticktime, I cure it before it ticks half the time. Oh well.
Actually, I think it's more than 10% at trans magic, Xen.

Mana : 2940/3005

9075h, 2940m, 6417e, 10p, 28240en, 16716w elrxk /14:43:25.078/<>-
Chanting dark words Caoilfhin points towards you, sending a shiver up your
spine.
: Succumb! Watch Mana!
9075h, 2536m, 6417e, 10p, 28240en, 16717w elrxk /14:43:28.750/<>-outr reishi
eat reishi

You remove 1 reishi, bringing the total in the Rift to 252.
9075h, 2536m, 6417e, 10p, 28240en, 16717w elrxk /14:43:29.078/<>-
You eat a reishi mushroom.
9075h, 2536m, 6417e, 10p, 28240en, 16717w elrxk /14:43:29.343/<>-
Succumbing! Watch Mana!
9075h, 2086m, 6417e, 10p, 28240en, 16717w elrxk /14:43:29.734/<>-sip mana

You take a drink from a pearl vial.
Your mind feels stronger and more alert.
9075h, 2793m, 6417e, 10p, 28240en, 16717w elrxk /14:43:30.078/<>-
CURED succumbing
9075h, 2793m, 6417e, 10p, 28240en, 16717w elrxk /14:43:30.343/<>-
You may eat or smoke another herb.
9075h, 2793m, 6417e, 10p, 28240en, 16717w elrxk /14:43:30.921/<>-
You may drink another health, mana, or bromide potion.
9075h, 2775m, 6417e, 10p, 28240en, 16717w elrxk /14:43:34.218/<>-

I don't know where you get those figures from but they don't fit. With 7700 mana max I take between 1100-1200 a tic from succumb. 10% would be 770 right? That is rather 15% there.

Looking at it 10% would be reasonable, but the current level is not.

EDIT: I don't have my log here right now from the time Shamarah toaded me a week ago or so but I can post it when I get home. I just checked it yesteday though and initial hit + one tic got me pretty low, definitely more than just 20%.

I'll look into it when I can get online-- last time I was testing it, it was an exact flat number at trans. You're showing either 10% + 104, or 15% - 47. It might have something to do with being a tae'dae, though.

(It looks to be around 13.5% of your maxmana).

Hm. It might actually be 15%, though it doesn't really explain Ash's numbers. As I said, I'll check it out when I have a chance. Two finals to get through, first.

Ohh good luck! I'll pester you when I see you online then.

EDIT: Succumb damage isn't based on the int of the caster or anything is it (Or the skill rank in night)?