Acrune, your map is leaving off the etherdock, which is north of 17, not like it should make much differance as far as demenses go though.

Someone let me know how the meeting goes, I am going to be having too much fun remodeling bathrooms! YAY

Good luck and I hope it all turns out well

So how'd it go?

At the time of this post......still in progress.

It seems like a lot of the noncombat orientated people hate celest/nil conflict because if the opposite side is successful they lose a skill set for a bit. So why not change it so that instead of a penalty for the losers the winners get a 25% mana reduction in using their skill set? There is still a substantial benefit in raiding for the winners but all the non combat orientated people don't get griefed by it.

This makes no sense whatsoever. First, why would "noncombant oriented people" be 'griefed' by the loss of abilities that are ENTIRELY combat based? Second, the abilities do not require mana to use (investing powers and what not). Thus a mana reduction would equate to nothing. Finally, assuming they did require mana (which they don't), how would a 25% reduction justify the amount of energy/effort necessary to kill a Demon Lord or Supernal? What if you killed multiple Demon Lords?

Is there a parallel between those who have Celestialism and Nihilism (i.e., losing their bonds and related abilities) and those who don't? What abilities do Aquamancers lose if you kill a Tide Lord?

Mages lose nothing if the elemental lords are killed, but they no longer empower essence - it becomes worth less(1 power each, I think, if they're all empowered) until they respawn.

Yup, exactly. Essence is worth (number of empowered elemental lords)+1. Killed elemental lords do not lose empowerement (and shouldn't, because you can get manifestation sands only once an IC year), but they do not count as empowered while they're dead.

Firstly the skillset is not entirely combat based. Our best bashing skill is contained in there.

Secondly, the penalty we face for being unable to stop you killing the Demon Lords is to lose a skillset that is primarily combat based, making it even harder for us to stop you doing it again.

The most frustrating thing for me though is to lose it while I'm not even around. How would you feel if I was able to take a skillset away from you while you were not here and couldn't even attempt to do anything about it?

Slightly annoyed. Losing Maiden is aggravating. In group conflict though, not having your angel isn't the end of the world, not by a long shot. You can still stop them nearly as well.

Avatars died to 11-12 people.

my point is that the punishment/reward system should be changed so that

1. Conflict continues between Celestia and Nil because that is good for the game.
2. People who take out Demons/Angels get rewarded for the risk
3. People who don't wish to partake in the constant combat don't have their skills taken away as that leads to frustration and simply leaving - which is very bad for the game.
4. The reward structure is org-wide rather than individual to enforce the rp aspects of org vs org which is an essential feature of the game.

I don't play a Celestine or a Nihilist so I simply guessed at the type of reward structure that would be meaningful without leading to a drastic change in ability.

Did the meeting go well? Were some good solutions proposed and accepted?

Back before they defended each other and before Luna was buffed, sure. That'll never happen again though.

ANNOUNCE NEWS #660
Date: 10/17/2006 at 5:30
From: Morgfyre, the Legion
To : Everyone
Subj: Celestia and Nil

In response to player requests at the summit we held for the conflict
between Celestia and Nil, the following changes have been made:

-- Angels and demons on Celestia and Nil will attack enemies of their
respective planes on sight.

-- Celestia and Nil, save for the respective thrones, are now singular
areas.

-- There will be a general indicator of how far the Necromentate is to
being raised (similar to lighting the beacons for the Star of Celest)

-- The cosmic lords will now attack enemies on sight.

-- When a cosmic lord is resurrected, they will not be invincible for 5
Lusternian months after they are resurrected.

-- There was a request that enemies not be able to reach
Luciphage/Elohora through the regular method - but this was already in
place!

-- Attacking a cosmic lord will see you enemied to their plane in very
short order.

-- There is now a way for enemies to reach Elohora and Luciphage if the
other four cosmic lords have been slain (but only for a limited window
of opportunity).

-- The Demon Lords are now far less likely to kill their worshippers
during pacting and trying to reach Luciphage.

-- The location of the Pool of Stars on Celestia has changed: it is now
located up from its prior location.

-- The angelic and demonic hosts can now be influenced! Empowering them
will bring power to your city's nexus.


The last of these changes will go into effect shortly after this post,
but all the others are already in effect. As always, please BUG anything
that is not working as intended. It is our hope that these changes will
help to make the conflict between these two planes more interesting and
challenging, while reducing the amount of "burnout" a city might
receive.

Enjoy!

Penned by My hand on the 18th of Klangiary, in the year 159 CE.


Hopefully a typo, I think that word should be NOW not not.


I'm quite sad that the problem of vapours/lust + empress making for trivial Celestia defence wasn't addressed, but at least beckon was. Meh.

-- Celestia and Nil, save for the respective thrones, are now singular
areas.

Wonder what do they mean by that

Some good changes, if not as many as I'd expected.

What problem or inequity does the empowerment addition spring from?

It means that the pillars/pits are no longer seperate continents. Only the thrones (where Elohora and Luciphage live) are.


It seems to spring from Fae influencing, but fae influencing was supposed to help the imbalance of the elemental planes... So now Fae and the beasts summoned from them are not only worse power draw than the elemental planes, but they sound worse than influencing demons/angels, since we can only influence some of the fae, as they don't want to all go to Moon or Night.

I don't know what you're talking about.