Umm, I can't keep them asleep since my demesne wakes them up, and druids have no way to drain mana...

EDIT: Yes, I know I can unenemy them to make my demsne stop waking them up, but how the heck do I do anything without a demesne helping..? I guess I could ally them after sticking sap, and then spam slumber, but that's kinda ineffective, since I have no way to make them bleed without waking them up.

Clottign drains mana pretty fast. Munsia did that too me. She used that desert smuudge or whatever that make you bleed and then sapped and i couldnt trueheal without 1000 mana. But i could be surged back then im not sure.

I can't use desert smudges though, all I can use are the things that are great against everyone who doesn't have trueheal. Trueheal just... feels like it makes dreamweaving worthless

No more so than psionics.

Nerf some of Trueheal! Especially the barrier that makes them immune to non psionics users.

You mean psionics get to go through the prismatic barrier from trueheal/serpant as well as pentagram/circle?

Psionics (most of it but not all) goes through serpent/trueheal barrier.
Pureblade Decapitate goes through
Dominate goes through
Beckon goes through (Unsure on this)
Pooka goes through

There are others, but this is what I can remember off my head.
go go alt testing!

Pooka doesn't go through in the meaningful sense. You would have to not be using pooka BEFORE they truehealed.

Well considering most of the time they are off balance/eq before trueheal, having pooka lock on, and when they trueheal, just order them as they WILL have balance/eq to break the barrier. So it does go "through" in a sense.

It's also not really feasible to keep them under 1k mana, because they can just trueheal at 1.3k or something and have it restored to full.

Invoke spring goes through trueheal.

Come on balancing limitations for psionics!

So you're arguing about trueheal because of the fact that it can be used to escape locks and/or other nasty situations? Because essentially, there's no other use for it. (except damage warriors haymaker combo) If you need to trueheal, you better be getting the out of there to regroup asap.

But, in that case, nerf hermit, starleaper, demense center, burrow, fly, flow, shadowdance flight, moonbeam, spores, empress, planar summon, etc.

Hell, nerf teleport nexus.


My point is, if you're forcing someone to trueheal, you were winning the fight. Trueheal is being used in a defensive and escapist manner, much like all those other skills mentioned. It does nothing debilitating to you, and that fact weakens your argument that it is overpowered. Whether they escape or not is up to what resources they have available; luckily in those situations I had the available power because you weren't parrying head (which would've forced me to be more strategic with targetting or use power crushes). But in the end, you won that round even though I escaped.

There's another log where I couldn't trueheal out of sap because I tried a double crush combo the instant sap hit, thus I was at 6 power, sapped, and off balance. Essentially screwed, and thus, I died. So, it's a decision of mine whether to significantly cut back on my offense in combat (60% extra wounding from crushes, 2p each) for a strategic trueheal if needed, or use power and 100% of my offense. In my opinion, that disctinction is important and balances the defensive strength of trueheal.

You spend less power than he does. Eventually, you will win. Celestines might have an argument, but Warriors have a decent offense without any power, against softer targets, at least.

That argument is saying that fights are attrition battles, and whoever hits 0p first loses. Those situations are very rare.

And Celestines use most of their power prior to an actual fight. With my Celestine alt, the only times I found myself wanting power was when I was going for an instakill, or if the fight lasted longer than the defs I had (wrath, enigma, fool). In which case, it's smarter to run and re-def than sit there and refresh em as they drop.

Last time I fought a Celestine, I tired because he saved his power to trueheal out of saplocks, and thus had no offense with which to kill me He just kept going for soulless rubs without really hindering me. Also, if you look at the log, the time I had you in a good saplock, I went from 3P to 7P before you truehealed. That's how long it takes to kill someone with a saplock. Keeping 6P on your prompt is not sacrificing much offense at all...



EDIT: This really wasn't meant as a "Trueheal os overpowered!" thread, it was meant as a "I can't figure out how to kill someone with trueheal who is even the slightest bit frugal with their power use, what am I doing wrong? Could someone give me some pointers or advice?" thread.

Hrmm...kill faster?

Might have to resort to thornrend for the tankier truehealers, but otherwise you should be relatively ok. Or that stag insta-kill. (don't laugh, I've been swoop-killed twice because of bleeding due to thornlash - nice lil combo they can set up)

Honestly, I don't know...trying to defend against trueheal is similar to defending against shadowdance flight, or spores, or empress, or a number of other escape skills. It's hard, but I think escape skills should be hard to stop. Given a scenario where I truehealed outta a sap lock, then started to run but you caught me still in demense, could you feasibly set up another sap lock given the power you'd have/recharge?

And yes, I count trueheal as an escape skill, not as a way to get back into the fight.

EDIT: Well, 6p to you might not be sacrificing offense, but when burst wounding, using only 2 crushes is not going to cut it. Against good healers, they won't let their head remain close to or over critical, like, ever. So, once I get my target to heavy wounds, I often have to burn ALL my power to force their wounds over critical long enough for the brain bash.

Just so you know, the stag instakill depends on you being below 1/4 health. It's pretty unlikely a druid is going to get a warrior there without them already being afflicted to hell.

If we go for thornlash, we cannot use sap to hinder you from getting out of it. The two are exclusive for a reason.

Just to clarify.

Edit: What if trueheal required you to be on balance, so warriors couldn't use it as a haymaker, but celestines wouldn't really be affected too much?

As a druid, what could I do to kill faster? Two of my methods of killing are very slow, and the third not only requires 15 power most of the time (requiring a pause of 50 seconds for power recovery in the middle of it), it is undone for cheaper than it costs to do.


I have yet to figure out how to stack thornlashes 1v1. It's awesome 2v1, but 1v1, even with darkseed, I just can't layer enough before they are writhed from or ignited out of. I can show logs of me fighting a Celestine without using sap, trying to get darkseed to help layer thornlash, and then bounce-kill with bleeding, but I just kept failing to get more than one or two lashes up, or layer more than a few hundred bleeding.

Gore requires 1/4th health, as has been said. I would have done it if you were at 1/4th health - you never were, as my log shows. The lowest I had you was 3,700/5,000 and saplocked, one more tick of bleeding before I could gore you to impale. Gore is crap, but impaling someone who is sapped is kind of death. I hope. Unless you can trueheal out of an impale


Shadowdance flight doesn't cure them of all afflictions AND get them out. I can run/flow after them and continue the kill. I've killed people after they've been empressed away by pointing cudgel at them, since they were still horribly boned by the saplock. In order to spore (or flight), you need balance, and I can keep people off balance with stagstomp, epilepsy, and daydreams. None of those stop trueheal, only sleep does which is infeasible to maintain due to a damaging demesne.

One time, someone (I think you?) truehealed when I had balance. They fell from the trees immediately due to wind. I immediately raised cudgel, which should have dragged them back into the trees and stunned them. It didn't. They got away before I regained balance. If you check the log, I ran after you as soon as I could. You still made it out of my demesne before I made it to you. Between your two trueheals, I tried my best to get you into a saplock while your power was low. That was the best I could do.

Sadly, noone has yet pointed out where I could have done better I'm really getting frustrated sparing Celestines and Paladins. Though many people say it is hard to keep enough power on their prompt to trueheal out of a saplock, every saplock I've made against Celestians has been truehealed out of in the past few weeks

If you want to keep the person asleep, can't you just... not use your damaging effects? They suck anyway, unless you have some that I'm forgetting (just storm and squirrels, right?)

That's a good point, actually. Screw bleed kills, kill them with nightmare!