Hrm...just thinking about all the nasty combos you could do with trueheal/Titan refresh power scare me

Saying Pooka goes through is a complete miss statement.

Pooka is blocked by shield, but yes if you've already got the pooka in control of someone you may then issue one action to them at a later time in which you they and your pooka are all still in the same room and they have balance/eq/whatever might be needed for the action... other then that you can't.

I honestly don't know why anyone would specifically wait for the pooka command in that situation 'in case they trueheal' anyway, each time you wait you're delaying the next time you can force them to do something. Esentially, if you are playing it safe, you're losing 250 worth of passive mana drain every 12 seconds, if you wait.You'd sorta think that the citizens of the basin would learn to protect themselves from this new mode of attack (it's been many years now) and would upgrade their defensive skill to not leave out some of the strongest attacks.

Well, thornlash is the source of most of your bleeding, and it doesn't do direct damage, does it? And bleeding doesn't wake you up. Not to mention that you can also avoid using damage while solidifying a saplock.

That'd be a nice deathsight

citymanwithoutchervil has bled to death in his sleep.

Hmm, I need to check if Thorns wakes people up... Really, the bleeding from Thorns and Squirrels is most of my damage during a saplock. I use all my active actions to keep the lock. I might be able to just use thorns...


That requires me to be in dreamform and them to be asleep and on the ground Treelife drags them into the trees, I can't enter the trees in dreamform. Using nightmare requires them to be asleep anyway, and I can only get them asleep while they are sapped, and I don't have time to be doing too much damage...

Trueheal should be taken out of Sacraments and moved to Healing, and replaced with something suitable anyway.

Our demesne effect that causes only bleeding damage:

A vine drops down from a tree limb and lashes out at Elryn, cutting him deeply
with its tiny thorns.
Elryn wakes up with a gasp of pain.

Thus, it is not feasible for a druid to get off a sapkill without his demesne doing any damage at all, as all damage wakes up the target, including our bleeding effect.

I've said that for a while. Everyone complains.

I wondered about that for envoys ages ago but Narsrim said even though it would be a good idea it'd never get through. Which was true, but still.

Try it again, and again and again... and make it so

You could ask for that effect to do no initial damage. I believe its the initial damage that wakes up the target.

That's because it does damage. Redcap used to do damage and bleeding, so it woke up the target; now it does only bleeding and so doesn't.

Wow, I see so much complaining in this thread. Clear and simple: Munsia slew almost every good Celestine/Paladin (even those who could trueheal) as a Hartstone Druid. She slew Amaru 2-3 times that I know of by using a good sap lock.

I see a lot of problems with the complaints in this thread:

Drowse can only be used from dreamform. In person, you must either slumber (destroys insomnia or puts to sleep) or deepsleep (does that plus makes more tired).

Shadowdance flight is stopped by stun, sleeping, paralysed, doors, bonds, sitting, both legs being broken, not being garbed, pinleg, out of power, inquisitioned, leg-tendon, amputated leg.

Sure as hell isn't as good as trueheal

Munsia killed people with saplock from sap + 3x sleep fetish + 2x sleep fetish, that's one spec, and trueheal is OP by far... Kill anybodies offense, and warriors can keep offense going without using power. It's OP for warriors more then Celestines for that reason. Nico has weak curing, but makes up for it with trueheal, what other classes can do that?

Blacktalons for one. Your demesne is like 99.9999% of the work.

Never said it didn't...

Weak, yes, insofar as dreamweaving druids. Can't use love, or allheale won't cure blackout. If blackout hits at the same time as demense, similar situation. If sap hits while blackedout, that one fight against you I wasn't catching the effect line for sap correctly, thus wasn't halting other curing for the sap priority. Managed to get away and manually cure.

But now that's fixed. On a side note, druids' thornlash needs to be looked at. Arm balance recovery for warriors while arms are lashed is ludicrous, nearly doubles it, thus negating any offense I can mount. You say I can easily cure, sure. But that takes balance/equi, and by the time I writhe/burn out, you can lash me again, buying infinite valuable curing time. Stupid. Also, I thought tree life was supposed to remove vines forcibly when changing elevations? Didn't seem like it was.

And as far as warrior vs. warrior combat is concerned, I think my healing is quite good. Geb can attest to that.

Firstly, you can attack while writhing. Sure, if I get your arms, you're slowed a bit, but you have two hands, don't you? You don't need to use both of them if it bothers you that much to have a balance penalty. Secondly, you writhe out of a lash a ways before I regain the eq to lash again. Thornlashes are not possible to stack in a one on one fight. No effect helps the lashes stack, except darkseed which is 8p and thus prevents rending, which is also 8p. Thornlashes do not hinder movement much - you can trivially run out of the demesne to cure all of the vines at once. You can also wait until I've lashed several things before rubbing an ignite enchant. The fact that arm lashes ONLY effect blademasters and bonecrushers is a bit wierd though, I'll grant.


Not in the slightest. Changing elevations causes bleeding, and moving causes bleeding. In fact, the only use of thornlash that I have found (besides group v 1s which aren't fair anyway) is to combo with darkseed to lash a few times, then use treelife/treebane/raise cudgel to bounce someone up and down to stack bleeding. However, anyone with pseudo-descent curing can deal with it trivially, so I stopped trying to get it off. I forget who I was testing this with, but it just isn't a very viable method of killing against someone who writhes/ignites properly, and combines summer with writhe to cure both the entangles and the thornlashes at once.