I totally agree.

Zero problem with it.

Faethorn, yes, there was a claim for Serenwilde due to Maeve's actual specific, explicit request for assistance. After she stopped wanting it, there's no reason for a Seren claim over Faethorn beyond emotional attachment, and the fact that there are masses and masses of historical and roleplayed events that suggest that the intention is to have the two communes 'protecting' Faethorn from outsiders.

Similar stuff may exist for other organisations in the areas you've mentioned, but I'm 99% certain it doesn't apply to Celest and the Inner Sea. Celest and Celestia? Again, definitely. Celest and Water? Getting shakier, but I'll give you that one. Celest and Inner Sea? Laughable.

Remember, we're not talking about enemying. We're talking about hunting down members of an organisation who are enemied to another organisation for entering what is both technically and logically neutral territory, and subsequent war on their organisation justified by the presence of its members in said neutral territory - the harvester/casual bystander, for instance. Go figure.

The Inner Sea mobs have asked for our help in killing the mutants, breeding turtles and stuff. They don't ask for protection, but they have asked for help.

Ok, cool.

In that case, you have a valid reason to go and protect and help Inner Sea mobs, in my opinion. Does that extend and translate to pre-emptive right of removal by force from the area of persons having no intent to do any harm to said mobs, and that may in fact be moving through the Inner Sea in transit to another destination? (I frequently pass through from Stewartsville to the gorgog caves, for instance)

Sorry, answer is still no, I feel. If you had a valid territorial claim over the entire region, it'd be different, and I'd be cool with it. If you guys feel that you need to defend the mobs that badly, go sit with them and patrol the mobs. It's not a village situation where you own the whole thing, however.

And this kind of sidetracks the main issue, which I mentioned in my post before. Why should Serenwilde hold itself responsible for the actions of an individual when Celest is incapable of doing so itself?

ICly, Caedryn is all for war. OOCly, I think it's fun for me, because I kinda know what I'm doing, and I enjoy the roleplay and combat, and don't mind dying a bit. It does have a majorly adverse affect on probably the majority of other players from the Commune. Novices probably more so in terms of retention and enjoyment.

Seriously people... the basin is the f---ing smallest 'prime' world in all of the IRE games, not a problem since we have all the planes and Aetherspace to. HOWEVER, if we keep chopping it up into tiny little fricken peices, then the only people who are getting screwed are newbies, and anywho who depends on herbs...

Newbies, because they wont understand why half of one community os lubing up and shoving it to them, and the the people who need herbs because every community has a lock on at least on herb type. So you will have to buy your herbs from a minimum of FOUR people... So seriously, be realistic and think for half a second that maybe, just maybe, that one player is not out to bring down your entire f--in establishiment. As it was said earlier, the people of Celest right now are bordering on Megalomania of extreme degree.

End of the day, this is a game. End of the day, I want some enjoyment out of it. If that means I have to sacrifice a little, then so be it. As long as I still enjoy the game in the end.

Pretty good translation. After all, its not great when people become enslaved by roleplay that's so rigid and inflexible that makes it impossible for them to do anything but the same thing all the time. If only we were somehow in control of our roleplay instead of the other way around.

Because a stronger organization wants it so?

Whoever actually said you were stronger?

Considered that as an org, the majority of our people might just be bored, or wanting to not be fighting IC friends/family, yet?

I am not up on the details of this conflict, but this question makes me laugh. I want to rephrase it thus. "So you mean if Ixion did harm to us, you'd punish him, but if he didn't, you wouldn't?" Well, when you put it that way, sure it seems stupid, only punishing people for actually doing something with an effect. What were they thinking?

It's amazingly easy for a leader who's worth something to control the population. Serens seem to be used to inept leaders, hence, this nonsense. Celest can enforce the terms that Celest is asking for. Glomdoring can. I'm willing to bet that Magnagora could as well. Why can't Serenwilde?

Funny thing here, Celest claims to be stronger because they have more raids aganist the Serenwilde...

It should be pointed out the Serenwilde didn't stop raiding because we were losing, but we proved we could do damage, and that was enough for us. We are now more then happy to only defend, as it means most of the time, we get to do pretty much what we want...

Pretty much everyone who doesn't need a better grip on reality



Serenwilde did damage with Magnagora mostly, and one other time. Serenwilde is pretty poor at defending too. With shrine powers, a active demesne, and liveforest, you still have a hard time. Celest is absolutely stronger.

Selective memory FTW?

Again, I say, there is a big difference between 1. Doing some village quests which.. Actually help the village most of the time, and yes the said nation 'owning' the village. and 2. Sitting in an area waiting for someone to enter so you can kill them, but making no other hostile moves.

As for hypothetical people in a hypothetical situation in a hypothetical future celestia non-raid, I don't have to go into the realms of theory, celestians did that almost every day during the war, at the faethorn or etherwilde docks, or backwards, sitting there waiting for someone to enter 'their' claimed room. Camping for the sake of camping alone is a horrible tactic.

However, you've got to learn to tell the difference between peaceful visitors and raiders, and tailor your laws accordingly.

So individuals are to be reponsible for their actions, sounds good in theory. Unfortunately we all KNOW that is merely BS, there are people who will happily raid day in and out causing grief to people and you won't rein them in. Point of facts harken back to the days when Narsrim constantly stomp in Glomdoring everyday, and as a result Glomdoring lost much of its players and did Serenwilde ever made a real attempt to stop it? Now Ixion raids Celestia on the same basis, the effect is slow but I have seen it. People are upset and quit the game over Ixion constantly killing them over and over and then the angels when they are dead. Yes I have heard ooc reasons that Celest should stop this war because it is driving the pacifists away from the game, but never had I heard a single word about Ixion's ability to do the same OVER A PERIOD OF TIME. If you really want this war to stop, compromise has to be given, and taking Serenwilde's penchant for breaking treaties (true fact) making a "temporary" treaty won't hurt you in the slightest. There has to be a time when one has to swallow their pride and accept that there are ooc implications on both sides, not just your side.

A compromise requires two parties to bend otherwise its just an ultimatum. I guess from the posts made already Celest thinks its too good to make a real compromise with Serenwilde.

Tell me about it. The dozens of times Celest beat up Serenwilde, just GONE from people's memory, and suddenly the combat ability of both are equal. Funny how things work, huh?



Serenwilde has the same problem. Their comprimise would put things to where they were before the war started... which is rediculous. It still boggles the mind that Serenwilde leadership can't do what all the other orgs can do and place limits on what their citizens do to get them involved in a war.

Stop with your egos already and work things out (if it's actually important to you. If it's not, gtfo.)

So you can kill people in a game? So what? You accomplish nothing other than pissing the other guys off.

One of the agreements that were thrown around would have done that. There's a list that have been tried and tossed out on both sides. If Celest was serious about protecting their angels all they have to do is declare the war over. They were given the opportunity to ensure the safety of their angels and instead they decided to be greedy and make a public post with more demands instead of continuing negotiations.

Exactly! If Serenwilde would drop their ego, they wouldn't have to be killed by Celestians.

...Ugh.