Umm, what case? You only need to ignite once every FOUR times they lash you... You can also work in writhes when you aren't suffering from bleeding - you only need to ignite when you have 3-4 lashes on you, or when you are bleeding for too much to afford to take more bleeding damage.

Have you ever been a druid/mage? During the last spar I fought, I had to REJECT people every 10-15 seconds because of a PASSIVE effect. That is the ONLY cure for lust.

Why do you keep comparing everything to L3 speed offense vs L0 speed defence anyway? Just like you can say that I should be a faster race to be effective, you could choose a faster race to recover faster. If you balance everything at the extremes, you make the extremes a necessity. Should skills be balanced based on what an artied titan changling can do? If so, then warriors need a serious nerf - Ixion can pinleg me in a single combo and kill me in two, and he's not even a changling.


EDIT: Sorry, it just really irks me when people say, "Me taking a 4 second action (3.3 seconds if I'm a faeling/mugwump (I forget which balance ignite uses)) to negate 15 seconds of your offense (13 if you are a mugwump) is unfair! Nerf!" especially when, during those 15 seconds, love potion is garunteed to fire, forcing me to spend a 4 second action to reject the person

If you wait for four lashes, you are one unwise person. One demesne tick right after the fourth lash and most people would be dead. That's like trying to web a judge/decap user 2s before the judge/decap resolves.



That's on a damn lucky proc. Recall how many times I did not pinleg you in two successive combos without you healing. That's right, 8p wasted with no meaningful afflictions.

Recall how your demesne CURES PINLEG FOR YOU every demesne tick.

Recall how you can cure in pinleg and burrow/tumble/climb up to avoid warriors almost entirely.

True, but you have a second way of curing it - writhing. Also, it is going to take more than 15 seconds for the druid to get four lashes on you if you have lovepotion up, or their demesne will be neutered and thus moot - if you don't have lovepotion up, why are you in a druid's demesne in the first place?

So anyway, assuming you ignite after three lashes, that's still 11.2 seconds for hartstone druid, 12 seconds for a blacktalon druid, and 10 seconds for a mugwump. This is assuming you ONLY use ignite to cure at three lashes, not writhing as well. Remember that you take no bleeding when you ignite - you can use ignite once while clotting and sipping mana when your mana gets too low from the clotting or your bleeding just gets too high to recover. I wish I could do that against you - It'd be like... having Deepheal all over again


That's why I'm saying that looking at only the extremes is silly

But meh, I'm just tired and being argumentative now. I should ask Athana for some logs - I'm just really wondering where people are coming from saying it's so overpowered, since it's so worthless when I do it =\\

Love potion works great against most druids and mages. However, when fighting a dreamweaver, it has the downside where allheale will cure the love affliction before blackout.

It's really annoying when I get blackedout, try to allheale but it just cures love, then after the absurdly long blackout I'm looking at a nasty sap lock.

Ok, Ixion, you're off your rocker.

Vines have two cures. One slows offense, the other causes a heavy but manageable bleed.

Vines has a 50% chance of causing an affliction that reproduces the effect of an existing affliction (clumsiness) on one of your arms. It is ultimately less hindering than entanglement.

With the exception of warriors, (and this is important--druids are the flimsiest archetype in the game, so an unhindered warrior wins pretty quickly) no one is seriously threatened by the vines until three are on you. That's 12 seconds of unhindered offense for my opponent. At this point, I can spend 6p and get some bleeding, or I can hope my opponent can't count and spend another 4 seconds and attempt the instakill.

Now, do tell the ladies and gentlemen of the jury why this is an unbalancing situation.

I just dislike that, if you use the writhecommand without any extensions, you writhe out of the thornlash vines first. I am too busy to work that into my curing.

Yeah, Shorlen in that FFA it was before I fixed the writhe thing to use ignite (I used the wrong variable to turn ignite on and off), so I kept writhing off, then I d/c'd

I use my own system, and it broke because of that hallucination mote you embedded. During the rest of the fight my writhe variable was being reset by tipheret or something, but nothing saved me that last time.

I need to redo my writhing anyway; too much annoying random tiphereting.

Good! That hallucination FINALLY did something besides screw up my OWN curing *mutter*

One thing that needs mentioning...just because you have a instakill doesn't mean it necessarily has to be very viable. It's just an alternate route of attack, that still does have a chance to win against mediocre curers.

I mean, come on. I have friggin burst organs, which any dunce can cure. The only possible way I can kill someone who can cure is if I nail them with a blackeye-burstorgan combo, and they don't happen to diagnose after blackout passes (which any dunce really should). Either that, or whore senso and crushed legs to force other salve cures.

Yes, but you do have quite a few valid ways of killing. Druids only have sap and thornlash, and with the sap nerf, it isn't nearly as bad as it used to be.


EDIT: To put it another way, the entire reason that thornlash was suggested and introduced was to give druids a viable kill other than sap. The envoy proposal even included provisions for preventing it from being used as a group instakill in a group fight, so it could ba balanced for effectiveness in a one on one duel. Those were not incorporated into the final version though.