Unknown2006-10-28 04:42:16
QUOTE(Verithrax @ Oct 27 2006, 09:26 PM) 347685
Sorry, I just kind of get annoyed when something I've paid credits for (The ability to make money and enjoy the fun of being a professional, competitive tailor) gets yanked out from me for the sake of making me throw 300 more credits at it. It's one of the things that irritate me about Lusternia and make me want not to buy credits - Things bought with credits here tend to be nerfed into oblivion rather often, either because they weren't thought about very thoroughly to start with, or because you should be buying more credits.
Actually, that's not true. While skills do tend to be nerfed or left in less-powerful forms, artifacts don't tend to be nerfed, and are usually buffed instead. Buying an artifact is probably one of the best investments you could make, as they are never, ever made less powerful than they already are for fear of the forums igniting from the flames from the artifact owners. Nerf a skill, a fraction of the fraction of the playerbase that spends significant amounts of money gets pissed. Nerf an artifact, you piss them all off.
Exarius2006-10-28 07:52:42
Shears.
Probably the main advantage they'll bring me personally will come in cutting the time to do a restock. Anything else will be gravy.
Don't see myself making 1.5 million gold off of them ever. But they're not a paperweight anymore!! In the end, no possession in Lusternia is about anything but having something cool, so now I'm happy.
Verithrax2006-10-28 07:54:14
QUOTE(Avaer @ Oct 27 2006, 11:45 PM) 347694
I will want batting. (When I have more than 57 gold to my name, that is)
Batting is already insanely overpriced, and I don't see anyone buying it from a tailor with no shears. Hell, for the sake of the silk economy, I should probably refuse to do batting.
Also, I want at least to get splendour batting with better proofings.
Exarius2006-10-28 08:20:43
QUOTE(Verithrax @ Oct 27 2006, 08:02 PM) 347669
It pisses me off that they finished making the tradeskills crippled.
What did you expect? An absolutely static world, free from imbalance and competition, where there's never anything new to strive for?
Maybe you did. I don't know. Fact is, any edge the shears give me will be minimal. I don't have enough time to go scrambling for business one customer at a time, which is where the shears become most profitable.
I'm sorry you feel ill-used, but you're seriously over-reacting. Nor is what you're complaining about new. Lusternian economy is one of the most dynamic I've seen on a MUD, but it just isn't set up for the average player to be able to make a living off his trade skilll. The customer-per-trade ratio is just way too low.
And the bottom line is this: credits pay for the upkeep and expansion of Lustenria. Every credit spent is the fruition of someone actively supporting Lusternia, usually in some tangible way. Complaining about people gaining an edge by spending credits, no matter the venue through which those credits were obtained, is naievely communistic.
Unknown2006-10-28 14:25:38
However, the edge presented by the tailoring shears is quite significant when compared to other tradeskill artifacts (which still present a major edge). Clothes produced with shears are now superior to clothes produced without them:
- Better prestige, which is crucial for influencers.
- Longer duration, which is more appealing for customers who want to pay less frequently
- Material reuse, which can allow a smart tailor to greatly decrease the material cost of their crafted items
- Cost reduction for mending, proofing, and batting, which gives them an immediate edge in terms of cost used to create an item (especially in the case of batting, 25 silk will soon be extremely expensive)
People with shears now have the ability to create items that are far better than normal items for cheaper than the normal cost. Any serious influencer or money-wise player would choose to buy clothing crafted with shears as opposed to clothing crafted without, because it's just better. Trade artifacts are meant to give an edge to people, not put people without an artifact seriously out of business.
(Then again, it's an artifact, so it's okay for it to be overpowered.)
- Better prestige, which is crucial for influencers.
- Longer duration, which is more appealing for customers who want to pay less frequently
- Material reuse, which can allow a smart tailor to greatly decrease the material cost of their crafted items
- Cost reduction for mending, proofing, and batting, which gives them an immediate edge in terms of cost used to create an item (especially in the case of batting, 25 silk will soon be extremely expensive)
People with shears now have the ability to create items that are far better than normal items for cheaper than the normal cost. Any serious influencer or money-wise player would choose to buy clothing crafted with shears as opposed to clothing crafted without, because it's just better. Trade artifacts are meant to give an edge to people, not put people without an artifact seriously out of business.
(Then again, it's an artifact, so it's okay for it to be overpowered.)
Sylphas2006-10-28 17:13:44
The edge produced by Gloves of Harvesting is easily just as much. All else being equal, I could charge HALF AS MUCH for each herb and make the same amount of money as someone without Gloves. You're selling your time, and a Gloves user only has to spend half as much time harvesting to get the same amount.
Shears are not overpowered, except maybe compared to the Pantograph, which is a little bleh.
Shears are not overpowered, except maybe compared to the Pantograph, which is a little bleh.
Shorlen2006-10-28 17:17:15
I'm confused.
Since when does better prestige from clothing matter? Have you compared the difference between command royalty? It's trivial, and I don't even notice a difference in the number of attacks or speed or ANYTHING.
Not only that, jewelry does FAR more for one's prestige than clothing. You can hit royalty without wearing any clothes at all, in fact.
The sheers, like all the other craft artifacts, are convienence, but they are NOT profitable. You can get far more money from NOT buying them than from buying them.
Since when does better prestige from clothing matter? Have you compared the difference between command royalty? It's trivial, and I don't even notice a difference in the number of attacks or speed or ANYTHING.
Not only that, jewelry does FAR more for one's prestige than clothing. You can hit royalty without wearing any clothes at all, in fact.
The sheers, like all the other craft artifacts, are convienence, but they are NOT profitable. You can get far more money from NOT buying them than from buying them.
Verithrax2006-10-28 21:58:46
My complaint isn't about people spending credits to get an edge.
My complaint is about the administration indirectly crippling something for which people paid credits. You may argue that credits support Lusternia, and I understand perfectly a lot of the issues involved, but what it comes down to is that people that have had what they bought credits for removed so that now they have to spend more credits to get basically the same thing (The ability to sell their tailoring to people, for whatever reason they want to do it). If they want to sell more 300 credit artifacts, they could've made trans tailoring useful for bards. But instead they're taking away something I've paid credits for and said I can get a better version by spending 300 more credits, and it's rather unsettling and irritating.
My complaint is about the administration indirectly crippling something for which people paid credits. You may argue that credits support Lusternia, and I understand perfectly a lot of the issues involved, but what it comes down to is that people that have had what they bought credits for removed so that now they have to spend more credits to get basically the same thing (The ability to sell their tailoring to people, for whatever reason they want to do it). If they want to sell more 300 credit artifacts, they could've made trans tailoring useful for bards. But instead they're taking away something I've paid credits for and said I can get a better version by spending 300 more credits, and it's rather unsettling and irritating.
Veonira2006-10-29 00:46:31
Verithrax, I don't think this is going to greatly change tailoring as much as you believe it will. I have the shears now, and I will probably still be charging people as much as I did before for things such as tailoring. The bonus for me is that I will make more gold, yes, but you yourself won't be losing business.
Why not complain that arts increase duration of clothing being terrible too? I think the benefits are fair, and I've really spent about 900 credits just to be the best tailor I can be. You will still be able to sell tailoring, I think you just need to calm down about it, give it a week or two to see that you will still be in business.
Why not complain that arts increase duration of clothing being terrible too? I think the benefits are fair, and I've really spent about 900 credits just to be the best tailor I can be. You will still be able to sell tailoring, I think you just need to calm down about it, give it a week or two to see that you will still be in business.
Verithrax2006-10-29 03:35:31
I'll probably be dropping tailoring, given how it's likely not going to be changed to make bard tailors have access to all their skills.
Gandal2006-10-29 03:47:01
Slight hijack (but it's about credits!), but to sell stuff in a manse, you need a storeroom and a shop miniature, if I'm correct. That means that for the *basic* shop-manse, that's 500,000 gold + 1000 cr. And I wanted a shop too
Unknown2006-10-29 05:10:47
The shop miniature creates the storeroom, it's the reason why you cannot have any down exits in the fulcrux room.
You'd expect a free room if you're paying a thousand credits for a shop.
You'd expect a free room if you're paying a thousand credits for a shop.
Kharaen2006-10-29 05:16:42
Benefits to an aethershop though:
* It's a manse vault, since nothing in the storeroom will decay.
* It's an extra room, admidtedly stock room.
* NO shop taxes for life, yay! It will eventually pay itself off, quickly if you have a low cost trade (like herbs.)
* Can connect to any city/commune, dramatically increasing consumer base. (My aethershop is connected to Serenwilde, Magnagora, and Celest!)
It is eventually worth those 1000 credits!
* It's a manse vault, since nothing in the storeroom will decay.
* It's an extra room, admidtedly stock room.
* NO shop taxes for life, yay! It will eventually pay itself off, quickly if you have a low cost trade (like herbs.)
* Can connect to any city/commune, dramatically increasing consumer base. (My aethershop is connected to Serenwilde, Magnagora, and Celest!)
It is eventually worth those 1000 credits!
Narsrim2006-10-29 06:37:01
QUOTE(Verithrax @ Oct 27 2006, 08:14 PM) 347678
Like I said... all tradeskills, except perhaps Herbs and Poisons, are crippled unless you have the trade artie. How is that any different from the way it works in Achaea? Hell, in Achaea with 300 credits I can get the trade permit and do my own designs. Lusternia's trade system is downright inferiour to Achaea's.
And the thing is, people with shears won't charge more. The moment a person that owns a set of shears does, everyone will start doing it. And it's not fun having clients turn you down because you don't own a set of shears.
I redirect you to Enchantments and Alchemy, where the trade artifact is W-O-R-T-H-L-E-S-S because we use powerstones.
Unknown2006-10-29 06:46:31
QUOTE(Narsrim @ Oct 29 2006, 01:37 AM) 347943
I redirect you to Enchantments and Alchemy, where the trade artifact is W-O-R-T-H-L-E-S-S because we use powerstones.
Plus, I do know people who do just that with a jewel plus gloves, for alchemy.
Kharaen2006-10-29 06:59:08
I redirect you to the pantograph, which has the bleheist affects of the Trade arties.
Isluna2006-10-29 07:01:55
To a point I will agree with Verithrax. But after that point I wont. I have done the batting. Twice. Once on request, and the magicproof wont proof the vest, I did bug this. Can proof with fire/frost/quicksilver though. Unless they fixed it or magic was never intended to be proofed on the vests, I don't know.
The second time was my test on the fire/frost and really cost wise robes are better, because of the cost of silk. I hope that changes, but they did warn us that it was going to cost when they made the changes.
I myself will never own a pair of shears, might barrow them from someone time to time, but other things have made me decide I wont be buying rl again and I am not going to waste gold I make on buying ig credits unless I decide to get a pet or a manse shop. And that will be a long time, cause I am a lazy hunter.
But really Verithrax please calm down. It might change yet again. You have pointed out a few things in your rants that are worth thinking over, and might bring these changes, might not. Its really not worth getting worked up over.
The second time was my test on the fire/frost and really cost wise robes are better, because of the cost of silk. I hope that changes, but they did warn us that it was going to cost when they made the changes.
I myself will never own a pair of shears, might barrow them from someone time to time, but other things have made me decide I wont be buying rl again and I am not going to waste gold I make on buying ig credits unless I decide to get a pet or a manse shop. And that will be a long time, cause I am a lazy hunter.
But really Verithrax please calm down. It might change yet again. You have pointed out a few things in your rants that are worth thinking over, and might bring these changes, might not. Its really not worth getting worked up over.
Daganev2006-10-29 08:05:59
Soo... about those updatse... Does the Pyramid puzzle work from a Manse to Prime, and from a Manse to other planes?
Exarius2006-10-29 09:17:41
QUOTE(daganev @ Oct 29 2006, 03:05 AM) 347963
Soo... about those updatse... Does the Pyramid puzzle work from a Manse to Prime, and from a Manse to other planes?
I'd tell you, only anything I had to say on the subject would be a wild guess, and I swore off wild guesses for tonight.
Estarra2006-10-29 18:46:19
QUOTE(daganev @ Oct 29 2006, 12:05 AM) 347963
Soo... about those updatse... Does the Pyramid puzzle work from a Manse to Prime, and from a Manse to other planes?
It works from manse to prime, or whatever plane your manse is docked at if it is a ship.