No. You do the same amount of wounding and damage per hit no matter if you get an affliction on a person or not.

Amputating a leg does not knock an opponent down, nor does it hinder them from moving out of the room. Also warrior do not recover balance faster after hitting rebounding. Unless there were some stealth changes that has been the case for such a long time, that it is common sense now.

Severed tendon can knock a person prone. Once the person is at the critical wound state, it is not hard to severe the tendon (twice if they sip allheale) with an easy jab or assault. Then turn right back around and amputate the limb. I've done it quite a few times, I suggest you give it a try... Oh wait, you have already done that to people.

Second point. You are right, rebounding does not allow us to recover balance faster after hitting it. I guess I would not have the common sense to know that, since I rarely hit it. Still, does not change the fact that other types of misses do allow us to recover faster. Also add in that we raze extremely fast and can easily bypass rebounding with cleave, rebounding is not a major concern.

Many times I come here to see you complain about how much something Pureblades have is lacking. Each day I prove you wrong by actually using the very attacks you say are lacking to kill people. Heck, I even used them on you when I did not have any power (remember draining me of it?) to defeat you. So until you can actually put something up here that really has merit in my eyes, you will continue to have to deal with me disagreeing with you. (This brought to you by your attempt at a jab).

edit:

I think some people have to remember that Allheale only heals the affliction, it does not heal the wounds. A person still has to apply health, or use skills that cure wounds to remove the bodypart from danger. This is not like other realms where curing the limb affliction also cures the limb damage. So, Allheale is no where near the hindrance that some feel it is. It may slow progress down, but it is possible to get around.

Incorrect.

For all your complaints, why is that the wound afflictions you denounce as worthless would likewise destroy you versus Geb? I just don't get how you can complain about your abilities being weak, when another person can utterly destroy you with those same abilities - quickly.

As for wounding, I really think you'd find your wounds more worthwhile if you weren't so easy to hinder. I've fought you both in and out of my demesne. I've preserved you multiple times with no other freezing than icefloe. In sum, your healing is poor and as a result, your abilities are less effective when you are prone, webbed, paralysed, and trampled 5 times in a row. If, however, you were healing effectively, you'd find that amputations and what not to be more worthwhile.

Why does it seem that all our arguments always come back to the fact that you seem unable to look at things from other warriors' perspectives. All warriors do not have access to the artifacts that you do nor should they have to, to be competitive. No other archetype depends as heavily on artifacts as warriors do, and that can not be denied.

No other warrior has an illusion wand that allows them to trick an opponent's parry and stances to allow blows to desired limbs or more than one pet to passive hinder. So judging balance solely from your own perspective is entirely wrong.

But to focus on your point about amputate, I made a error when reading your earlier post, and assumed that you said amputate knocks prone. That may have not been the case, but stating that it is easy to sever a tendon then immediately amputate is just fallacious. You fail to take into account the effect of armour on wound damage output. For instance, your chance of amputating any of my limbs alone is quite slim. Not because I'm an incredible fighter, but just because I'm decent at curing wounds and have good armour. But then again, you like to judge things based on the lowest common denominator.

I also find your attempt to discredit me by saying that I complain a lot laughable. I bring up issues that I see regarding my class, not for my own benefit, but for the benefit of the class as a whole, using sound testing and documentation. To be completely honest, I wish there were not so many factors in the warrior equation. I wish that a warrior that transcended all their skills could be competitive at the higher levels of combat without any artifacts, as I once was in other realms. But I guess that is a desire that I alone hold.

I don't know why you brought up the fact that you defeated me though, seems quite out of place. Do you think that it somehow validates your opinion and debases mine?


I went back and tested it and it does indeed seem that there was a stealth change to amputate, while it does not knock prone initially, it does hinder movement similar to other significant leg afflictions now. It also offers a chance that the victim will fall upon successfully moving if the first level of the affliction isn't cured.

I just want to point out:

Daevos, you tend to argue about wounds be ineffective in general, but always reduce your arguments to other warriors when called to question. If everyone had amazing full plate, I suppose there may be some merit to your argument, but that's just not how it is (and for the record, you have amputated me from no wounds in two hits, which happened the last time you jumped me on Leo).

It would be akin to me saying demesnes are ineffective because against another mage, they can easily handle it (by taking it down).

Perhaps you misunderstood my statement then, since I was trying to give a example of how wound damage output can vary. Showing the other side of the coin to give perspective to the first side presented....thought that was obvious.

The thought of anyone ever saying that demesnes are ineffective is amusing beyond belief though.

First, let’s talk about the wand. What did you start doing when we were fighting? You started draining over and over again. So, yep I pulled out the wand to be just as cheap as you were being. Once my power was gone, my wand was put back in my pack. In the end, the wand had no effect on you. It was your inability to cure well that messed you over. And, dare I say that your move of draining all power from my reserves was a far more hindering than me using illusions against you. Illusions are possible to ignore (I know, because I am pretty much immune to warrior illusions), having no reserves is not. Your power draining has no defense against it except run or kill you quickly. So, you are the one that went down the path of cheapness first. I just followed you down, and showed you how it is really done. Your statement about the wand also does not negate the fact that for the last hour and a half of the fight, I did not use it at all. You got beat by good old weapon swinging. So I suggest you try to find another reason why you lost, because the wand had nothing to do with it. (I know why. Ask me and I may just tell you.)

Second, I told you why I brought it up. My reason was placed in that area with the parenthesis; did you not see it? You know when you tried to throw out your little jab about common sense? So I jabbed back, and did it a bit harder.

Third, the entire spectrum has to be considered when balancing out a class. So I do feel warriors with artifacts have to be considered, because frankly it is not hard to acquire them. Anyone with the desire to have a few artifacts can. Be it via working in game, or spending the time out of game to make the money to purchase them. I oppose any ideas being created that empower the middle, but overpower the upper end. It is possible to balance a class without overpowering those with artifacts. Heck, many of the suggestions on the Wiki will accomplish just that for Two-Handers.

Forth, your point about my statement being false on how easy severed tendon is to reacquire when the limb is at critical is truly laughable. I’ve seen plenty reacquire it on others when their limb is at that point. This especially the case if the target is a robe wearer. Now if you are talking about other warriors, then yes it is a bit harder to reacquire (not too much harder though). To that, I say it should be. Warriors are meant to be the most resistant to physical damage (on average). It is up to the other warrior to wear his opponent down, not expect to perform a few attacks and win the fight.

There are warriors who do not have any artifacts, getting kills on mages, guardians, wiccans, and druids. It is just that they have to use more ingenuity and greater tactics than some desire to put effort into. Terenas was one such fighter, who had not one artifact but was still able do quite well against you guys that did (when he was in his prime). Not to say that warriors do not need any more tweaks, but seriously they are not any worse off on average than any of the other archetypes I see around here. I also dare say that warriors benefit far more from artifacts than any other archetype.

So in the spirit of pointing out an opposite point of view, I suggest you start looking at what you can do and how changing certain things would overpower you. I know you have this feeling you are being altruistic in helping the other warriors who do not have the artifacts you have, but some of your complaints are about things that are just fine. If they were changed in a manner that you desired, it would just overpower those who possess artifacts or a Champion helm. Shoot, some people are receiving severedtendon in one combo by you. It is not just you though, because I’ve seen those with very good wounding weapons and just class skills and dwarven runes, severedtendon on soft-targets in one assault too.

Now, I am no fighter, but I do know that any novice can get hold of poisons that take away power reserves, and I also know that setting up illusions to trick someon'es parry system can not be done on the fly.

So obviously you have those illusions set up to use on people, and not just some "cheap trick" to counter his "cheap trick".. which doesn't seem all that cheap considering it is a commonly available poison.

Also a question... these stories of severe attacks on one or two hits... is this a pureblade/axelord thing? or is it just not relevant for bone crushers? Cause I have some damn nice weapons, and I need atleast 3 attacks to garantee a desired heavy/critical affliction

Then why, instead of always asking for upgrades, don't you ask for armour to be downgraded?

The venom can also be shrugged, the necromancy power can not be. The novice has to also actually hit the person with his weapons for it to work; the necromancy ability does not. Do you understand the difference?

Also, You forget that I was a mage before a warrior. I purchased the wand back then because it would increase my equilibrium recovery speed when in my inventory. I created all of my weapon illusions long before I even had a wand, since I use to use it to mess systems over. Some did not have effective health application tracking in the beginning, so sometimes people would just stop sipping after I used the illusion.

After I became a warrior, I tried the wand out on my first spar with Daevos (He was my first spar as a warrior overall, since he asked for one I assume to test where I was). I even gave him a spar without using the wand, and considering the fact that I had just become a warrior I did very well. He definitely could not kill me in that 15 minute time period. I’ve also used the wand a few other times, some to show others certain illusions they need to protect their system from. Anyhow, I do not use the wand under normal circumstances. I will use it if a person is going cheap though.

On your last question, are you talking about 3 combos or just 3 attacks?

3 combos. Only thing I can get in less than that is knockdown, which I can do with my flails and hammers as easily as with my high precision morningstars.

Well, severed tendon for Pureblades is a heavy wound. That wound state can be acquired in two attacks on light targets. I have had BMs gain Pinlegg in one combo on me when I was a mage, which is heavy wounds too (if I remember correctly).

Bonecrushers do have the ability to get the knockdown and stun quickly. Since they are duel-wielders, they can then do combos that will hit the leg and head in the same round. Axelords at the moment suffer from having the knockdown attack, but not being fast enough to take advantage of the stun. There are suggestions on the Envoy wiki that hopefully will help them (and to a lesser extent Pureblades) be brought up to par with the other two specialties.

Did you really say Daevos cures poorly?

Do you really think your skewed opinion means anything with your fully runed weapons? No other active warrior in realms has fully runed swords, and no other warrior is making claims that very skilled combatants cannot cure well. See a correlation?

Lazul's swords were fully runed if I remember correctly.

Read it again. I said active players. I know of another one besides Lazul too.

He couldn't cure well. I noticed it when we were fighting and he was not curing puncturedlung well. I also noticed it when he died to judgement in a one on one fight. Who dies to judgement in a one on one fight? Heck, it is easily stopped by leaving the room or hindering the person doing it. He also said he tumbled out, but by the time he tumble out he should have had anorexia and entanglement cured. He should have cured aeon and then went back to swinging.

So yes, he does not cure as well as I thought. Just like you do not cure well. You guys get so use to killing people quickly, that you never take the time to actually cover all of the bases. So perhaps you guys are not as skilled as you feel you are.

I think you both should become mages so you can get a different perspective on the issue.

Way to sidestep the current topic entirely. It's not entirely uncommon to die to judgement in a one on one fight. It only takes a little bad timing really. I cure rather well despite your constant jabs at such- well enough to engage large groups alone. For someone as old as you are, grow up. Become a mage? I'd like to try that class out, but a little notion called RP disallows that option.

Well, it seems this argument is following its natural course now isn't it. I really would love to know what you're responding to though, because it obviously could not have been my post. At no point did I bring up that particular fight other than to laugh at the fact that you need to recall it with such relish. Was it the highlight of your life or something? Do you really clutch the memory tight to your breast at night when all else seems lost?

Anyway the wand was only brought up to highlight the fact that you have access to tools that no other warrior has, and it is my belief that that access has colored your judgement. But since you seem to be so focused on that fight, I will say this, I made a few small mistakes regarding curing puncture lung in a timely fashion and suffered low endurance, which was compounded by the fact that I went into the fight with low wilpower from my earlier skirmishes. I've addressed the flaws in my curing and haven't thought much of that fight since. But if you ever want to dance without the use of any artifacts, to see who is actually better, we can. But I guess you will just go Taurian again, to largely make yourself immune to other warriors, eh.

Personally I would have no problem with warriors having no specific artifacts that gave us boosts, if the medium was balanced. But even though that is unlikely to happen it does not mean that issues regarding warriors should be swept to the side and ignored. There are numerous core issues with the warrior archetype as a whole which mainly stem from the level of chance involved in our offense. No other archetype have power skills that can fail to have any effect based not on player skill, but only on chance. But I guess your answer to that is that everyone should buy as many credits as you have, to lessen the influence of the flaws.

Again, with the twisting of my words huh, I actually don't understand why some need to argue against their own imagination rather than another person. Yes, tendon is easy to achieve if a limb is at critical, that is indeed common sense, thanks for bringing that up. I obviously was not aware of that fact, oh great wise one.

Alger and Terenas were pretty much the best warriors that didn't have many if any artifacts during their prime. But both had difficulties against any fighters that wasn't subpar in parry, stances, and curing. I actually enjoyed fighting them both since they were good technical fighters, but once my parrying and stances evolved, they stopped being threats.

Our opinion of what would and wouldn't overpower the warrior archetype differs obviously. I do not believe that our current chance of missing undefended limbs is fine. Nor do I believe that eliminating that chance would overpower us as you do. I actually still remember that argument faintly, it followed a similar course as this one. I also don't think that non-artifacted warrior can attain the same lethalness of a non-artifacted fighter of most other archetypes.

To be specific about purebladers, being able to achieve legtendon in one attack with greatswords. It's always been my desire that the warrior archetype lived more up to its hype. In the sense, that the longer you fight a warrior the more deadly it is. I always thought that critical wounds should be damn scary but hard to attain not impossible with sufficient skill. The problem is that skills like Trueheal, make burst wounding necessary.