The trade skill differences are enough to never allow cities vs communes, even with kegs/cubes. Sucks.

See see that's the beauty of it! It limits the time you have to force the forests to submit! Glom can sit back and lol choke so you'll nearly never beat them down defensively and then you'll have to tear us apart internally like ripping someones intestines out by shoving your arm down their throat.

So...who wants to start this war IC?

Are you sure that you and Jigan are not one and the same?

We should just go three-way on Magnagora, then everyone can be happy. Well, except Magnagorans.

I dunno, there isn't even enough to kill for just Celest. I'm willing to give it a try though

I can up with a secret plot to go threeway against Celest!

We could handle it

Go for it

Agreeable situation, that!

Well, first off, given Glom's commitments and worldview, any alliance would need to be temporary and utilitarian. But having said that, I think we actually have more reason to ally with Serenwilde than any of the other orgs, ideologically.

Celest: City - Light
Mag: City - Taint
Glom: Nature - Wyrd
Seren: Nature - Nothing

Glomdoring opposes Mag and Celest on two axes, and Serenwilde on only one, and even that is kind of half-hearted. It's not that Serenwilde is trying to advance a force over and against Wyrd, they just don't want it. It's a conflict from negation rather than a positive reason for conflict.

Really, even though Serenwilde is our bitterest enemy, it seems to primarily come down to the ongoing history of hostilities, not necessarily any big clashes of worldview. Or at least, not as big as the worldview clashes Glom has with everybody else.

Given the Wyrd/Taint ambiguity, we might even put Magnagora second on the list. Ironically, Glomdoring should be the most diametrically opposed to Celest, and historically, that's who we've snuggled up to the most.

The main problem is that we're not getting over those 2.5-RL-year-old grudges effectively without direct admin intervention, which will just piss everyone off (hi Maeve.) Maybe if it was better done than Maeve it'd work, but it's almost certainly not going to get into that state on its own.

Also problematic are that the cities would beat the living out of the Communes (though choke might give us some resistance) since they fight a lot more and have more experienced and active combatants, and the tradeskill disparity. And yes, enchantments are critical to communes despite what some people like to say.

Actually, that's only in recent history. Those who remember the beginning will tell you: Celest was no friend of Glomdoring...and the treaty that is in place now (that everyone assumes has always been) was put into place to stop the aggression against Glom by members of Celest when Glom was struggling big time. Of course, no one remembers the days of Celest + Serenwilde aggression against Glomdoring anymore, but trust me, it was brutal. "Historically" Celest was one of Glomdoring's worst enemies.

Celestians were some of the first people raiding with us (us = me, Narsrim, Triden, uh...few more) back when Glomdoring raised Gwyllgi and was killing Fae all over the place. Before it was an org, even. All these rogue players would raid Faethorn, then go hide at the Ravenwood (along with people who just stood at the Ravenwood for the sake of it) and then Malicia and the aforementioned Seren would crush 'em. It's been several decades of peace between Celest and Glomdoring though.

Good clarification. When I said "historically," I meant, "my history."

But that's very interesting info. Hmmm.

Hmm, even I don't remember that. I remember some individuals attacking Glomdoring, but I would have thought if it was an org effort, I would have been sucked into it, and I never was.

It was.

And the only reason a similar treaty with pretty much the exact same wording wasn't instituted with Magnagora was because Daevos didn't want to share earth-essence-- historically, we have treated them both the same way, including current negotiations/discussions.

There were only a handful of Celestians attacking Glomdoring, most of which had defected from Serenwilde and regarded Glomdoring as tainted. This is pre-wyrd. Celest has never made an official declaration of war against Glomdoring. It was just a group of people attacking Glomdoring. Narsrim's an army by himself. The 'brutality' never advanced beyond what that same group did as Serens.

Yeah it's definately the history that holds new relations and new conflicts back. Like people from Glom are obviously still bitter about the old Narsrim/Munsia whoever from Seren. Of course all alliances are temporary. The scenario I thought that might actually have any chance of working would obviously play out like this. Obviously Mag would be up for it since Celest is their long time enemy. Glomdoring, I'd hope would prefer Mag to Celest partially because Kaervas is all d'Murani like and then the main point would be that we needed to put aside our differences and protect nature and that Celest is currently too strong for any one or even two organizations combined. At any point, they could threaten our very existances and blah blah blah. Of course I'd have to be pretty persuasive, but I can't really think of other ways to make it work.

In any case, the best way to get away from this, is the entire fresh blood thing. People who either don't remember, weren't around for it, or people who don't care. Kaervas unfortunately is a dinosaur

Well that and I haven't actually tried setting this up.

But Forren just gained Acknor, and banned Celestians from stealing furrikin from Estelbar, which is almost always Serenwilde's. There's this pact between the two orgs, too. You'll have to break these friendliness springing up between Seren and Celest for all three to work against Celest.