Questions on bards

by Unknown

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Unknown2006-11-03 11:43:18
Greetings. If anyone is able to help me figuring the following out, please do it.

1. Which of bard attacks depend on Charisma and which on Intelligence? Quite confused here. What's the main stat for a bard?

2. How strong is MinorSecond in PvM compared to staffcast? How good the bards are at bashing?

3. Does Ecology mesh well with the other skillsets or Illusions would be better? I know both skillsets, but which of them is more suited for a bard?

4. What race seems good for an ecologist PvP bard? What about an illusionist?

5. Any info on human bard evolution stats?

6. I'll quote Avaer's post on different classes. Could anyone put the bards into it?
QUOTE(Avaer @ Jul 20 2006, 04:50 AM) 309435

My completely biased and arbitrary ranking system on four elements of each class would be as follows.

Defence is tankability, healing power, and armour/protection.
Offence is obviously both damage/affliction ability.
The last score on 'speed' is broken into two components: mobility score refers to how much of their combat capacity is carried around with them/how well they can respond to jumping. Agility score refers to how good they are at escaping, moving around, running.

CODE

========================================================================
Class               | Defence | Offence | Mobility | Agility | Overall |
========================================================================
Geomancer (Psion)   |    8    |    9    |     3    |    3    |    23   |
Aquamancer (Psion)  |    9    |    8    |     3    |    3    |    23   |
Hartstone (Run/Drm) |    5    |    6    |     1    |    5    |    17   |
Blacktalon (Run/Drm)|    4    |    7    |     1    |    5    |    17   |
Moondancer (Hexes)  |    7    |    6    |     3    |    5    |    21   |
Shadowdancer (Hexes)|    6    |    7    |     3    |    5    |    21   |
Celestine (Tar)     |    6    |    8    |     4    |    4    |    22   |
Nihilist (Hex/Tar)  |    6    |    8    |     4    |    4    |    22   |
Serenguard (?)      |    9    |    7    |     5    |    1    |    22   |
Ebonguard (?)       |    9    |    7    |     5    |    1    |    22   |
Ur'guard  (?)       |    9    |    7    |     5    |    1    |    22   |
Paladin (?)         |    9    |    7    |     5    |    1    |    22   |
========================================================================


Unknown2006-11-03 11:51:12
QUOTE(Stan @ Nov 3 2006, 06:43 AM) 350091

1. Which of bard attacks depend on Charisma and which on Intelligence? Quite confused here. What's the main stat for a bard?
Their main hunting attack is magic damage(Lusternia isn't ready for charisma based attacks, I think Psions are proof of that), and based on intelligence, however it takes mana and ego to cast, so you'd have a harder time with a bard with extremely low charisma because of that.
Soll2006-11-03 12:26:22
QUOTE(Stan @ Nov 3 2006, 11:43 AM) 350091

Greetings. If anyone is able to help me figuring the following out, please do it.

1. Which of bard attacks depend on Charisma and which on Intelligence? Quite confused here. What's the main stat for a bard?

2. How strong is MinorSecond in PvM compared to staffcast? How good the bards are at bashing?

3. Does Ecology mesh well with the other skillsets or Illusions would be better? I know both skillsets, but which of them is more suited for a bard?

4. What race seems good for an ecologist PvP bard? What about an illusionist?

5. Any info on human bard evolution stats?

6. I'll quote Avaer's post on different classes. Could anyone put the bards into it?


1) There are no charisma-based attacks for Bards. The main stat is Intelligence(thus mana), closely followed by a high ego for songs/attacks.

2) Though I haven't tested extensively, I suppose MinorSecond at a Bonded-Maestro instrument level is roughly between Symbols and Staves.

3) Ecology is generally more combat-oriented, but I'm not saying that taking Illusions would stop you performing in combat. Phantoms, terrain, wounds, etc are nice Combat moves.

4) Aslaran seems to be the all-around best.

5) Sorry, I don't know this.

6) Bards:
Defence - 3
Offence - 4-5
Mobility - 3-4
Agility - 4-5 (Bards can escape from nigh-all situations with ease, especially Tarot Bards. However, Ecology Bards get the advantage of leaving after death with no experience loss.)
Unknown2006-11-03 12:56:10
Thanks for clearing the things out for me. So bards with a total sum of 14-17 are amongst the weakest classes right now?
Soll2006-11-03 13:06:10
Yes, but if a Bard knows what he or she is doing, they can be troublesome to kill. Offensively, a Bard can't expect to kill another trained opponent. Defensively, a Bard can't expect to stand toe-to-toe against another trained opponent who's using damage.
Unknown2006-11-03 13:17:45
I'd have to rank their mobility at a 5(max) and their Agility well above max (8) myself. They do possess self healing and the ability to heal others, unique in the fact that it heals more then one stat at once, I'd have to bump their defense to 4 out of 10 with that, and agree with an assessment of 5 out of 10 for offence(for commune fetish wielding bards), for an overall of 22.

These are highly subjective at best though.

Moondancer (Hexes) | 7 | 6 | 3 | 5 | 21 |
I'm a healer myself, so I think that would change me to 10/2/3/5. A ten for defense you say? Is that why I still die in 2 combos sometimes? Also that agility rating of 5 goes down to a 3 if I'm not on my own turf with tons of my own team mates milling around and I can flow or moonbeam to. 10-2-3-3 is a lot different from 7-6-3-5. Situations change, and -all- of those numbers on the chart will as well. It's very subjective though, mostly to how one currently feels about the state of the world and their character.

Maybe I should rank my offense at a 1 though, as a healer without bedevil. unsure.gif
Unknown2006-11-03 13:43:13
What do you think, should we expect some fixes in the near future or it is not going to happen soon?
Unknown2006-11-03 14:11:24
QUOTE(Stan @ Nov 3 2006, 01:43 PM) 350111

What do you think, should we expect some fixes in the near future or it is not going to happen soon?

Bards are a very new archetype, I'd expect many things will change in the near future as minor tweaking is performed to bring them into line with other classes.

I think Soll's ranking of our qualities is pretty accurate. Bear in mind that it is probable racial specializations will be extended to cover the bardic guilds, but it hasn't yet been decided for certain.
Soll2006-11-03 14:34:02
QUOTE(Wesmin @ Nov 3 2006, 01:17 PM) 350104

I'd have to rank their mobility at a 5(max) and their Agility well above max (8) myself. They do possess self healing and the ability to heal others, unique in the fact that it heals more then one stat at once, I'd have to bump their defense to 4 out of 10 with that, and agree with an assessment of 5 out of 10 for offence(for commune fetish wielding bards), for an overall of 22.


6) Bards:
Defence - 3
Offence - 4-5
Mobility - 3-4
Agility - 4-5

Their mobility definitely isn't five, because: 1) Bards don't act well when jumped. A lot of their effects require the song being raised, and rarely will a Bard walk around keeping his/her song in full flow, and because of this, they don't carry around their whole offence with them(whereas Warriors - who do score 5 - always carry their weapons, and any other skillset abilities are available to use as needed).

And MajorThird only heals health, and it doesn't even heal a great deal, so I would argue that defence definitely stays that low. We are, by far, the archetype that takes the most damage and will (for the most part) have lower health levels.

---

However, I'm sure the Admin are watching closely and will be pumping the Envoys for ways to tweak Bards so that they are more in line with other Guilds, so I expect things to be fairly fluid for a while.
Unknown2006-11-03 14:44:44
I still think an agility of anything less then above max is wrong. tongue.gif

This is also a-typical combat only, I'd have to rank them high, if not best, out of all archetypes for influencing or swaying villages.
Shorlen2006-11-03 15:23:33
Minorsecond is exactly in between trans druidry nature curse and trans druidry point cudgel with a maestro (maxed) instrument.

Bards are suited more for group battles than for single fights, however, with the way deafness works at the moment, they aren't quite as useful in group fights as one would hope, since they can't really keep one person deaf, much less ten. Blank note should be AoE dry.gif

Ecology is probably the best for bards, and it combos well with a really nice song of both communes (Shadowbeat has a song to reduce chance of shrugging, and Wildarrane has a song that makes all of your poisons also increase tiredness - illusionist bards can't benefit from either).

Bards really have no skills to combo with illusions well, if you ask me, but eventually, Illusions will be redone to be better for bards. They are going to divide illusions into two specs, Phantasms for magi, and Glamours for bards. We have no idea how far away this change is though.
Unknown2006-11-03 15:47:46
Elryn's table was highly subjective. Highly subjective meaning "my class = weak, classes I have problems with = overpowered". Just ignore it.

Bards are supposed to be a support class. It was said so since day one. And that's what they're good for. As for 1on1 - well, from what I discerned from their skills, they're pretty weak. Probably weakest class offensively so far. But it isn't broken, and those who expect "fixes" are to be referenced to my signature.
Jack2006-11-05 03:28:36
They're not viable for solo combat. Not at all. The afflictions don't compliment each other, and (in Necroscream, at least) the majority of skills are buffs anyway. But they're an excellent support class, pretty damn good in terms of mobility (especially Tarot-users) and have some great utility skills, such as scissorflip, climb and highjump. And they're second to only guardians in terms of style, and are by far the best class in terms of creativity; I've been having a lot of fun just making up lyrics.
Unknown2006-11-05 03:59:41
Has it been confirmed that Music and spec songs can be used in peaceful influence?
Estarra2006-11-05 04:31:04
QUOTE(Avaer @ Nov 4 2006, 07:59 PM) 350946

Has it been confirmed that Music and spec songs can be used in peaceful influence?


You can perform songs while graced or in peaceful areas, etc.

Aggressive acts, however, shouldn't harm people. In other words, while you can play SickeningPlague in a song while graced, no one will actually be plagued so long as you are graced.
Diamondais2006-11-05 04:32:26
QUOTE(Estarra @ Nov 4 2006, 11:31 PM) 350954

You can perform songs while graced or in peaceful areas, etc.

Aggressive acts, however, shouldn't harm people. In other words, while you can play SickeningPlague in a song while graced, no one will actually be plagued so long as you are graced.

Thats actually a neat aspect of Bards.
Unknown2006-11-05 04:52:48
QUOTE(Estarra @ Nov 5 2006, 04:31 AM) 350954

You can perform songs while graced or in peaceful areas, etc.

Aggressive acts, however, shouldn't harm people. In other words, while you can play SickeningPlague in a song while graced, no one will actually be plagued so long as you are graced.

Testing with Shorlen, it seems negative effects still hit enemies in peaced rooms. For instance, Stonemists still put out his pipes occassionally.

Is that supposed to happen?
Estarra2006-11-05 04:57:49
QUOTE(Avaer @ Nov 4 2006, 08:52 PM) 350960

Testing with Shorlen, it seems negative effects still hit enemies in peaced rooms. For instance, Stonemists still put out his pipes occassionally.

Is that supposed to happen?


I just realized that there's a few skills that have an issue.

It'll be fixed tomorrow.
Shorlen2006-11-05 05:18:39
QUOTE(Estarra @ Nov 4 2006, 11:57 PM) 350963
I just realized that there's a few skills that have an issue.

It'll be fixed tomorrow.

Will skills designed solely for peaceful influences, such as BlueMoon (gives enemies a sip penalty for Bromide only), continue to work in peaceful influences? If so, I do not understand the intent of the skill, when no Serenwilde guild has an ego-based kill...
Unknown2006-11-09 03:25:01
QUOTE(Cuber @ Nov 3 2006, 07:47 AM) 350151

Bards are supposed to be a support class. It was said so since day one. And that's what they're good for.


Frankly, not even that.

Ask Athana and I how we fight (I'll give you a hint, it involves a couple of novice skills and 0 necroscream)

Our "support" aspect is nonexistant since deafness blocks allied effects and everyone (least on our side) is deaf to counter enemy effects since their offensive effects are good and ours.. well.. aren't sad.gif